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Stolen IBM Carbines From Factory, 1944 |
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Pete51577 
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 Topic: Stolen IBM Carbines From Factory, 1944Posted: May 07 2025 at 9:24pm |
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Hey Everyone, Another interesting story I dug up in my research in old newspapers. I'm an IBM Carbine guy. I grew up in the Hudson Valley of NY, close to Poughkeepsie where IBM made the Carbines, and I am an IBM baby, having grown up in a household where my father and mother were both employed by IBM, as were my grandparents, going back to the pre-war days in Endicott, NY. Anyhow, I'm always digging. I found this newspaper article about 2 workers at the Poughkeepsie IBM Carbine plant who stole parts enough to build up 14 or 15 weapons. They were caught by local police, FBI, and Army Intelligence. I'd love to find the FBI records on this and see if some Carbine serial numbers are able to be found here. Enjoy! March 12, 1944 Poughkeepsie Journal  Edited by New2brass - Sep 29 2025 at 10:37am |
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Pete51577
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Posted: May 07 2025 at 9:26pm |
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Pete51577
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Posted: May 07 2025 at 9:39pm |
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June 27, 1944 Poughkeepsie Journal
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Pete51577
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Posted: May 07 2025 at 9:41pm |
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October 18, 1944 Poughkeepsie Journal
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Pete51577
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Posted: May 07 2025 at 9:45pm |
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December 10, 1944 Poughkeepsie Journal
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Pete51577
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Posted: May 07 2025 at 10:21pm |
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Warren and Howell's WW2 Draft Registration Cards
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painter777
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Posted: May 07 2025 at 11:05pm |
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Pete, Another great robbery find
 Ch-P777
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Living Free because of those that serve.....
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Jond41403
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Posted: May 08 2025 at 12:03am |
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this may be a dumb suggestion but I wonder if a freedom of information request would yield the serial numbers? If it's not already publicly known, I wonder who would have that information?
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Pete51577
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Posted: May 08 2025 at 7:05pm |
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Not even remotely a dumb suggestion! In fact I am going to pursue doing just that.
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Jond41403
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Posted: May 08 2025 at 11:05pm |
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very neat! I am curious of the results and wish you luck
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thirtyround
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Posted: May 09 2025 at 12:56pm |
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I suppose its possible / probable... they acquired the receivers or barreled receivers before serial numbers were stamped.
(dont know if that is done before barrel attachment or not, someone here may know that process...) OR they might have obliterated the serial numbers. However if not... Would be fantastic to determine the serial numbers of these carbines! JB |
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John
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Jond41403
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Posted: May 09 2025 at 4:57pm |
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You make a great point Thirty. If they truly were just carrying it out in small parts, they probably at least thought to take the receivers before identifying numbers could be put on them.
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Pete51577
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Posted: May 09 2025 at 9:52pm |
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Yes, absolutely...one would think that, if they had this little operation between them to carry off carbine parts to build up over a dozen of them, they would have gotten receivers before serials were stamped into them. Getting the FBI documents could shed a whole bunch of light not just on this situation but also the situation within the factory, etc. I hope I can get them, if they still exist, before the end of the century!
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painter777
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Posted: May 10 2025 at 5:00pm |
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Top Article says:
-Authorities said they found numerous unassembled parts of the weapons, all of which had been inspected and passed at the local plant. From 2nd Post/Article clip... Howell, the younger guy worked as a machinist on night shift. Warren, Was the Stock Reporter. Found in the double locked trunk at Warren's home were 10 fully assembled Carbines with enough parts to build 25 more. Plus a Carbine was pulled from Howells car and 3 barrels and receivers from Warrens car. Plus multiple ammo from all. So were they just making sure they had 'In Spec Parts' or was that their best opportunity to get hands on, While parts were in bins awaiting assembly. As a 'Stock Reporter' was Warren cheating the numbers? I think with the convenient parking spot, parts were hauled out at night. I'm sure the community was proud of these two at the time. I think about all the Propaganda posters for Civilians to go without, ration and work extra hours for the War effort. While Fathers, Brothers, Husbands and Sons are over seas fighting a World War. They got off too easy IMO. Seems they should have been Drafted. All for a $30.00 Rifle
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Pete51577
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Posted: May 10 2025 at 8:58pm |
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Right....you bring up a really important point. During the war years...1940's society....they didn't play. People read the papers and everyone was on board with the big program. I'd imagine these guys had a very rough time of it as you suggest. Growing up there were still a lot of "1940s people" still around and I vividly remember one person telling my father of a story of someone who didn't respond to his draft number being published in the paper. He woke up one morning to his car painted yellow. The community had it's ways of making sure people did the right thing then.
Good takeaways from the article. Maybe they did have serials on them? That would be insane, but more insane things have happened. I wonder about their motive. Probably thinking that they could sell them once the war was over? Did they have buyers at the time? From their perspective, they were pretty advanced little rifles for Depression-era folks. I'm really hoping I can get more details on all of this.
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Jond41403
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Posted: May 10 2025 at 10:10pm |
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me too Pete, this is very fascinating!
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Matt_X
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Posted: May 11 2025 at 8:59am |
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It would be interesting if the recievers were kept as evidence or returned to IBM in time to get made into a finished carbine that could still be around today. I don't think having a serial number or not would be important to these thieves. Unlikely there was going to be paper trail of ownership once these were sold off. Whether they knew it or not, the origin of the parts was going to be pretty obvious. They were smart enough to realize their customers would need ammo. I don't know what average salaries were in that area. Looking at the 1940 census for the Newark NJ block my dad's family lived on, $30 could be a week or two weeks pay. That assumes the carbine was sold at something around its cost - the black market has its own price scale. Unfortunately their have always been people who will take advantage of big operations to help themselves, even if it may be hurting their compatriots. Happened overseas too. For example, see Mauldin's comments in Up Front about what was going on with supplies in occupied Naples. |
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painter777
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Posted: May 11 2025 at 12:14pm |
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Agree Matt,
What would a Marked IBM Serial Numbered Receiver matter to a couple of Thieves, When they've already got a locked trunk full of Inspected, Marked, IBM Carbine Parts. Few things lower than a Thief IMO. Ch-P777
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Jond41403
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Posted: May 11 2025 at 1:21pm |
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I wonder how they got noticed? The article mentions they were being watched by the local police, the FBI and the army intelligence. I wonder if they confided to the wrong person which would end up being an undercover agent? Or where the counts coming up wrong which made them look deeper? I believe you're right about them being taken at night time It mentions a night shift which one of them frequently worked. It just mentions that they investigated complaints that led to their arrest so I wonder what specifically was the complaint? Seems like missing receivers would be easier to catch then all the miscellaneous other small parts. Also noticed that the older of the two was a veteran of the first world war!
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Bart1015
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Posted: May 13 2025 at 8:46am |
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I bet another employee saw one of them take parts and reported it. If so, IBM would have then conducted a receiver inventory to confirm/discover some were missing. I assume the receivers because a small parts inventory check would be very hard to do accurately. After some kind of confirmation of theft, L/E and the Feds most likely covertly watched them long enough to obtain probable cause for a search warrant.
Really interesting article. Thank you for posting it,
Brett |
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Always looking for more carbines.
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