Click on the image above to learn more about the M1 Carbine
|
Requesting Assistance to Identify Correct Bolt |
Post Reply
|
Page <123> |
| Author | |||
tenOCEE
Hard Corps
Knows rear sights! Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: East Tenn Status: Offline Points: 1338 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Apr 11 2020 at 8:58am |
||
|
I've got a correct S36 bolt. 140 plus shipping. I suspect the original broke and was taken out. Could this damage have been the result of poor reloading practices? Stretched casing? Over-pressure load?
|
|||
|
My sig: Seen an IP or S'G'? Add it to my registry. We'll check consecutives.
https://grandrapids.wufoo.com/forms/zzlnt0519k86xs/ |
|||
![]() |
|||
Eight_Ring
Recruit
Joined: Apr 08 2020 Location: Massachusetts Status: Offline Points: 24 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Apr 11 2020 at 9:08am |
||
I'd probably discount hot reloads--he himself doesn't reload--unless he picked them up by accident at a gun show (or a fellow from his shooting range?). The recoil spring looks like it is in good shape, and measures just a tad under 10 1/4" inches. The other facets of the recoil lugs look like they are in good shape--but the left lug race shows signs of wear and bright scoring where it narrows. I don't have a firm idea as to what a pristine LH lug race looks like for comparison. I'll google it up spend some time studying it. If I was to suspect anything (and not to point fingers) but it might be as simple as poor-to-no lubrication leading to galling and excessive wear. The left race seems pretty chewed up for a rifle with a muzzle wear of 1. Thanks for the offer of the S36 bolt, the price seems fair--I will keep you advised. |
|||
![]() |
|||
DonFlynn
Grunt
Joined: Jan 27 2019 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 650 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Apr 11 2020 at 9:27am |
||
Your behind enemy lines, that sucks. My suggestion is J&G Sales. They have unissued USGI WWII mags if those are legal to get to you, plus "shooter" grade used USGI https://www.jgsales.com/magazines-c-332_190_197.html Shame you can't get the KCI mags. I've been testing 8 I got end of last year and so far have had good luck with them, I'm planning on more after I see what my Trump bucks look like and what Memorial Day sales are (I could end up with another Carbine in the stash with my Trump Bucks )
|
|||
![]() |
|||
Eight_Ring
Recruit
Joined: Apr 08 2020 Location: Massachusetts Status: Offline Points: 24 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Apr 11 2020 at 9:46am |
||
I will check those mags out--thanks. Having the Korean mags as an alternative is great for shooters in Free America. |
|||
![]() |
|||
floydthecat
Hard Corps
Joined: Oct 13 2016 Location: Mississippi Status: Offline Points: 2307 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Apr 11 2020 at 4:26pm |
||
|
If you understand the Garand sequence of operation, you can certainly apply that to the carbine. The bolt closes under operating spring rebound and there simply seems to be no way bolt-return on it’s on caused that.
It’s been mentioned previously, but the carbine has a floating FP with a receiver bridge-cut to catch the FP tang and prevent OOB discharges. You will need to examine that fitment closely before it is fired again. I have experienced one OOB discharge in a commercial 30-06 and it is not comfortable to experience.
|
|||
![]() |
|||
painter777
Hard Corps
Joined: Feb 18 2016 Location: Central MI Status: Offline Points: 2352 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Apr 11 2020 at 5:29pm |
||
|
FWIW,
I've never seen a broken left lug on a bolt. Both the left and right locking shoulders look ok on your receiver. Cause of 'Peened' metal in the left rail: Maybe the Extractor was tossed.... Or bolts right lug broke away. Could keep guessing but that wont get you up and running. You'll need to try a file or Roto tool with a fine grinding wheel to knock off the sharp outer edges on the 'Peened' area you point to. You'll also need to gently stone the top and bottom edges of the 'Wavy' bottom track on the receiver to de-burr it. Check both rails the bolt lugs ride on/in for burrs. Also check the grooves where the Op slide rear and inner front pads ride in for burrs. Any interruption to the slide..... be it burrs or lack of lube can cause bolt lug damage. I'll try a picture here to give you a template to see what your looking to achieve. Good Luck and Stay Safe, Charlie-Painter777 PS: I agree she looks dry. Dry metal on Dry metal will build shavings that can appear peened. When you Stone, Use no grease. Use a light film of oil... LIGHT. Also makes it easier to clean away metal shavings... much easier than shavings caught in grease, when your done. The metal here on these receivers are softer than many realize. You got this! ![]() ![]() |
|||
|
Living Free because of those that serve.....
|
|||
![]() |
|||
painter777
Hard Corps
Joined: Feb 18 2016 Location: Central MI Status: Offline Points: 2352 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Apr 11 2020 at 5:44pm |
||
|
8Rings Pic:
Open this image in a new tab to see magnified.
![]() |
|||
|
Living Free because of those that serve.....
|
|||
![]() |
|||
tenOCEE
Hard Corps
Knows rear sights! Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: East Tenn Status: Offline Points: 1338 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Apr 11 2020 at 7:22pm |
||
|
I'd suspect the left lug over-rotated because of something else that happened but it didn't dig in straight down. It probably traveled as it dug in making a rounded crater. Look at the other side of the receiver in the slide cut, the outside of the receiver where the slide tab rides. Is it wallowed out? Doesn't sound like it would be with the minor bore usage measured. Maybe check the slide tab for spec? If everything else is ok, it doesn't seem like the divot is going to harm operation. Check the head space with a replacement bolt. Make sure there's no burr on the receiver behind the left lug.
|
|||
|
My sig: Seen an IP or S'G'? Add it to my registry. We'll check consecutives.
https://grandrapids.wufoo.com/forms/zzlnt0519k86xs/ |
|||
![]() |
|||
Smokpole
Hard Corps
Joined: Oct 21 2019 Location: Madison ohio Status: Offline Points: 1484 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Apr 11 2020 at 10:54pm |
||
|
I'm gonna throw out a theory here. I wonder if the barrel was slightly loose and someone used a punch on that spot to move metal to tighten up the barrel? Looks to me like that is a possibility. Just a WAG, but it would fit what I see.
|
|||
|
OGCA Life member
NRA Life member Ashtabula Rod and Gun Life member |
|||
![]() |
|||
floydthecat
Hard Corps
Joined: Oct 13 2016 Location: Mississippi Status: Offline Points: 2307 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Apr 12 2020 at 7:11am |
||
|
Is it just me, or does the barrel skirt look a bit roughed-up? Blowing up the picture, I think I see some definite tool-marks along the left side like die-grinder tracks.
I would not spend the $ for a correct bolt yet. I think something smells a little fishy here. I’d pick-up a generic GI bolt (if you can’t borrow one) to load and see if everything shakes out. It just looks like somebody has tried to correct a problem, which might still exist.
Edited by floydthecat - Apr 12 2020 at 10:29am |
|||
![]() |
|||
Smokpole
Hard Corps
Joined: Oct 21 2019 Location: Madison ohio Status: Offline Points: 1484 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Apr 12 2020 at 7:23pm |
||
|
You know Floyd, that goes with what I was looking at. Poor barrel fit and someone tried to correct it and Bubba'ed the job.
|
|||
|
OGCA Life member
NRA Life member Ashtabula Rod and Gun Life member |
|||
![]() |
|||
Eight_Ring
Recruit
Joined: Apr 08 2020 Location: Massachusetts Status: Offline Points: 24 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Apr 12 2020 at 10:20pm |
||
|
FloydTheCat/Smokpole--
I don't know anything about fitting loose barrels or how to remedy them, but when I first inspected the receiver my initial impression was that somebody had been running it way too dry and way too dirty--and what I was looking at in the bright metal on the raceway was the galling of unlubricated metal surfaces. What first caught my eye on the LH rail (especially where it narrows to almost nothing) was the bright worn metal that seemed to be gouged (almost skived) by the bolt travelling forward, which leads directly to the peened area. It was the center area where the milling narrows on the raceway to almost nothing that concerned me the most--but again, I don't know carbines or what guides the bolt along in its track. As I inspect the areas where the bolt face would meet the receiver and rotate going into battery I am seeing similar signs of uneven-ness and galling. I'm not seeing any signs of mechanical grinding. I think it might be best to approach the receiver's viability with guarded skepticism, stone away burrs and address the peening, and then headspace it with the least expensive good-condition bolt I can find, and then just see if the old girl runs. If it fails to run reliably, that would be a damn shame--it's a nice little rifle with original parts, and there are some tough decisions ahead for the owner. It could either be a non-firing piece--or a honey of a parts kit. We shall see. Thank you all for your input. I certainly do appreciate it. |
|||
![]() |
|||
painter777
Hard Corps
Joined: Feb 18 2016 Location: Central MI Status: Offline Points: 2352 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Apr 12 2020 at 10:22pm |
||
|
Jim,
I can't see how a strike on a punch in that area could do anything as far as helping tighten a receiver to barrel. Would be different if the threads were left hand. But can't underestimate Bubba ! Gotta take in to account this one needs some major cleaning. The chamber looks really rough, much like the first post showing inside the muzzle. But if you... Open this image in a new tab to see it magnified you'll see milling scars on the skirt. Milling marks like you often see on the finished skirts. But I also believe I'm seeing a crack or split where the skirt looks to be pulled away from the face of the chamber flat. Can you guys see it ? Thinking we've done all we can do without having hands on. To the OP 8Ring, Any mention of there being a sling, oiler or magazines tucked away for it ? Is it for sale ? ![]() Charlie-Painter777
|
|||
|
Living Free because of those that serve.....
|
|||
![]() |
|||
tenOCEE
Hard Corps
Knows rear sights! Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: East Tenn Status: Offline Points: 1338 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Apr 12 2020 at 10:54pm |
||
|
It does look cracked.
|
|||
|
My sig: Seen an IP or S'G'? Add it to my registry. We'll check consecutives.
https://grandrapids.wufoo.com/forms/zzlnt0519k86xs/ |
|||
![]() |
|||
Eight_Ring
Recruit
Joined: Apr 08 2020 Location: Massachusetts Status: Offline Points: 24 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Apr 12 2020 at 11:07pm |
||
Painter777-- Interesting insights inre the skirt. Any chance the rifle suffered an OOB? I may recommend that they have a good smith look the carbine over, if I can find a competent smith in the Boston area. The rifle is not currently for sale, and that isn't something I would want in play influencing people's advice currently. That all is beyond my pay grade. I just offered to help get it running again so we could go shooting together--though whether or not that can happen is in dispute. In the meantime, for me, it's a good motivation to learn about the M1 Carbine, and damn fine project for long hours of social isolation during The Plague (lol). As for accessories, I had asked, but the old-timer couldn't recall if he still had that stuff around or where it might be if he DID have it. I had asked the nephew (who enjoys shooting, and who I am friendly with) to keep an eye peeled, and he will look around likely places in the barn, workshop, etc. It would seem to me that somebody who owns a carbine also owns cleaning supplies, magazines, ammunition--and it would likely all be in the same place, even if the exact location is forgotten--who throws that stuff away? It is probably in a box under a workbench--or in a closet--or at the family's place in Vermont. Keep an eye peeled for a workbench and bottle of Hoppes on a shelf--it probably won't be far from that. I'll post back if anything turns up. In the meantime, I have a WTB for headspace gauges and maybe a bolt tool, if anybody has those they'd be willing to let go of. Apart from that I'll just pay long dollar at Pacific Tool and Gauge. |
|||
![]() |
|||
tenOCEE
Hard Corps
Knows rear sights! Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: East Tenn Status: Offline Points: 1338 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Apr 13 2020 at 7:25am |
||
|
If it were mine, the skirt wouldn't prevent me from firing it. That area breaking under crush was why they short skirted barrels. The head spacing would prevent me though. Firing with a broken bolt is my first thought but that doesn't mandate it was OOB. It may have just had an OOB event and not a broken bolt. If the bolt was broken and it cycled & fired again what might happen? Did it over-rotate and jam the left lug to there as the right lug fouled up the next cycle? Maybe the bolt jammed and had to be driven out some how. The problem with smiths is there aren't competent ones familiar with that specific arm anymore. They'll tell you something you don't need. There can't be but a few people in the country left.
|
|||
|
My sig: Seen an IP or S'G'? Add it to my registry. We'll check consecutives.
https://grandrapids.wufoo.com/forms/zzlnt0519k86xs/ |
|||
![]() |
|||
floydthecat
Hard Corps
Joined: Oct 13 2016 Location: Mississippi Status: Offline Points: 2307 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
Quote Reply
Posted: Apr 13 2020 at 7:33am |
||
|
Look what I found. This is a 3.3 SG shooter that I recently re-barrelled. The odds of the OP's receiver and this receiver being handled by the same guy are pretty remote...I would think. If you zoom-in you can discover a small punch-mark in the exact same spot as the one in question here at the end of what seems to be a tool-trace. Maybe others can take a close look at their receivers. I would never have noticed this unless I looked for it. It appears to be purposely done to dress the area just below the left lug channel. |
|||
![]() |
|||
Eight_Ring
Recruit
Joined: Apr 08 2020 Location: Massachusetts Status: Offline Points: 24 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Apr 13 2020 at 4:16pm |
||
Interesting... |
|||
![]() |
|||
Smokpole
Hard Corps
Joined: Oct 21 2019 Location: Madison ohio Status: Offline Points: 1484 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Apr 13 2020 at 6:42pm |
||
|
With the barrel removed and the receiver placed front down, a hard strike in that location could move the metal forward just a thousandth or two. It would push the front edge of the receiver ring forward (in theory) enough to provide a bit of resistance as the barrel was turned in. I doubt that it would move enough metal to do the job, so the next try would be working on the barrel skirt. That might then result in the skirt damage we are all looking at. I think Bubba tried to tighten the barrel and made a mess of it.
|
|||
|
OGCA Life member
NRA Life member Ashtabula Rod and Gun Life member |
|||
![]() |
|||
Eight_Ring
Recruit
Joined: Apr 08 2020 Location: Massachusetts Status: Offline Points: 24 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Apr 13 2020 at 6:57pm |
||
Had you ever heard of anyone doing this before? Is it a common technique? Why would you assume that an original barrel would need to be "Bubba'd" to tighten it up? And if this is your theory--what do you make of the track of bright metal and (what I perceive to be) galling along the left receiver rail (which matches exactly the track of a damaged bolt lug) leading directly to the peened spot? |
|||
![]() |
|||
Post Reply
|
Page <123> |
| Forum Jump | Forum Permissions ![]() You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You can vote in polls in this forum |