NPM Firing Pin?

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   Hi, This is my first post to the forum. I have been an M1 carbine collector for several years. Recently bought a nice NPM with a US&S receiver. When I disassembled the US&S bolt I discovered this N-S marked type I firing pin that I have not seen mentioned before in any books or publications. Possible new undiscovered parts maker?  Has anyone encountered a similarly marked firing pin?  I apologize if my photo is too large, as I said this is my first posting.
Jim

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jim77cg Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List On Point Joined: Jan 14 2016 Location: PA Status: Offline Points: 168	Post Options Post Reply Quote jim77cg Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: NPM Firing Pin? Posted: Dec 07 2016 at 4:51pm
	Hi, This is my first post to the forum. I have been an M1 carbine collector for several years. Recently bought a nice NPM with a US&S receiver. When I disassembled the US&S bolt I discovered this N-S marked type I firing pin that I have not seen mentioned before in any books or publications. Possible new undiscovered parts maker? Has anyone encountered a similarly marked firing pin? I apologize if my photo is too large, as I said this is my first posting. Jim

New2brass Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Dan Pinto, How Can I help Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CCC Status: Offline Points: 5527	Post Options Post Reply Quote New2brass Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 07 2016 at 5:47pm
	First thing that comes to mind is if the marking is N-S or S-N Next what type of firing pin? http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/bolts.html ( in case you did not know you can click top banner to get to our web pages with lots of info)

jim77cg Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List On Point Joined: Jan 14 2016 Location: PA Status: Offline Points: 168	Post Options Post Reply Quote jim77cg Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 07 2016 at 6:57pm
	As I stated I think in my original posting, it is a type I firing pin, barely used. And you are right, although S-N doesn't appear either in books or publications.

New2brass Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Dan Pinto, How Can I help Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CCC Status: Offline Points: 5527	Post Options Post Reply Quote New2brass Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 07 2016 at 7:33pm
	Jim, apologies, I missed that as I was multi tasking Is the gun a rebuild or re assembled or a original? NPM had 3 manufacturers we know of along with known markings Standard Products had 4 manufactures of firing pint that we know of. The unknown marking is for Mechanical industries as per War Baby. Problem is there is also a SC firing pin out there. I think there is a newsletter on the N-S or S-N pin

jim77cg Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List On Point Joined: Jan 14 2016 Location: PA Status: Offline Points: 168	Post Options Post Reply Quote jim77cg Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 08 2016 at 11:12am
	The carbine appears original. All NPM parts, although most from US&S, receiver, bolt and slide. Barrel is Buffalo Arms dated 11- 1943 with no evidence of other than Type I band. Rear sight is original Type I marked N-A. I just reviewed the CCNL 366-6 concerning Std. Products contractors for firing pins and there is no mention of N-S. If N-S firing pins are mentioned in another CCNL I would appreciate knowing which number if possible. Thanks

New2brass Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Dan Pinto, How Can I help Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CCC Status: Offline Points: 5527	Post Options Post Reply Quote New2brass Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Dec 08 2016 at 7:25pm
	NL 126-4 shows 4 subcontractors using SN marks for NPM mag catches, safety, trigger and front sight. The only S-N (with a dash) is Shlegel’s sling. NL 366-4 shows SN front sight (or is it NS?) for STD PRO. My guess is Niedner made both the SN and NS, they didn’t care which way the marking was. We know firing pins require specific heat-treating. Which of those companies - that made mag catches, safeties, triggers and front sights - were good at heat-treating? Hopefully someone will have some input.

New2brass Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Dan Pinto, How Can I help Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CCC Status: Offline Points: 5527	Post Options Post Reply Quote New2brass Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Mar 15 2025 at 10:30am
	Someone had just asked about these S-N or N-S firing pins. Unfortunately some have taking the presented information and made a conclusion without any factual evidence to back it up. To be clear, not the OP, but those that take the info and repeat it. US&S had problems with production and there are ordnance records discussing what parts they made, specifically receivers, slides and bolts. If US&S was making firing pins because they made bolts, would they then be making extractors as well? US&S made bolts for NPM, as well as IBM, Rockola, and QHMC. Why not firing pins for those companies? Lets think about this, a firing pin contract would be a small and simple task compared to many of the other items needed. If you needed firing pins, would you have a company set up production and pay for that or reach out to a company already making that part and see if they can provide that same part? Next, was the subcontractor "S" or "N" and the inverse the prime contractor. The only companies that made firing pins that began with S was Scott Atwater for RO, but no proof of existence, and Stevens Machine for IBM SVB marked. There were other S firing pins, but the reason for the S is based on what the prime manufacturer wanted, which I explained in numerous other threads. For N manufacturers of firing pins there are National Cash Register Company to Inland NI National Lock Company for QHMC NL-Q Nolan Machine Company N-N for NPM, N-Q for QHMC, N-U for Underwood Of those three, which marking is more consistent with N-S or S-N? In my Underwood Subcontractors A-Z article I mentioned this firing pin. "Nolan Machine Company produced firing pins for NPM (N-N), QHMC (N-Q), and Underwood. There is also a firing pin marked N-S which is most probably is a yet-to-be-found Nolan subcontract to Standard Products." So the above is pure conjecture with some reasoning behind it. The dash being somewhat obvious. The the fact that Standard Products had issues with obtaining subcontractors. They also reached out to other prime contractors for parts. Think of how may SP carbines were corrected to what was thought to be correct? To confuse it further, the SP making system was confusing because S was already being used by Saginaw. SP was having parts marked prime to sub S-HB, SW, SB, SDP etc. To conclude, the N-S firing pin may have been made by Nolan for Standard Products but there is no documentation to back it it up Interested in hearing others thoughts Edited by New2brass - Mar 15 2025 at 11:31am
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painter777 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Hard Corps Joined: Feb 18 2016 Location: Central MI Status: Offline Points: 2352	Post Options Post Reply Quote painter777 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Mar 16 2025 at 7:06pm
	Dan, Could the name have been: Nolan Machinery Company? Location... Rome, New York ? I found this from his son if I'm on the right track: "Nolan Corporation was started by my father, Edward James Nolan, in Rome, NY. He was an engineering graduate of RIT. Nolan Corporation printing products were designed by my father. In the 1950's, due to labor union problems in Rome, he sold the company to Ralph Nolan, his brother. My father continued his business in Pulaski, New York, manufacturing very large cement and mortar mixers, and was one of the first to design a riding lawn tractor called Little Mo. He continued to design printing machinery for Nolan Corporation during this time." Story takes some twists, but shows they did make a lot of metal working machinery. A link to a Nolan Super Mill http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/1056/23956.pdf I need a few days to dig deeper. Ch-P777
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New2brass Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Dan Pinto, How Can I help Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CCC Status: Offline Points: 5527	Post Options Post Reply Quote New2brass Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Mar 16 2025 at 9:38pm
	according to WB Nolan was in Rome and Rochester NY. Seems a lot of businesses were listed in more than one location. Sometimes corporate address vs plant address. However I am not finding Rochester location, my be a printing error. Will check city directories tomorrow. That little mill was typical of carbine production for a a step or two on a part in the line of production. I can not tell you how many I brought to the scrap yard back in the day.
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painter777 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Hard Corps Joined: Feb 18 2016 Location: Central MI Status: Offline Points: 2352	Post Options Post Reply Quote painter777 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Mar 18 2025 at 9:07pm
	I've found where Nolan shut down all other production during WWII just to supply the Military. This 1st link says they were in Rome and "During WWII the company dedicated 100% of its effort to war work employing 400 men in making machine guns parts for the U.S. Army." https://vandercookpress.info/edward-j-nolan/ But being builders of presses and printers they put out propaganda to the public and their customers at no cost to let them know when the War was over they'd be back to production. Nolan Machinery was a major supplier of proofing devices and other printing equipment. During the war years the company switched to manufacturing items for the Army, and used its advertising space to post strong, often racist political messages. I'm looking for contract information but even if found will it specify all the Primes Nolan would have made them for? I've noticed Nolan has a Badge or Tag on the equipment they made. A Circled N with the strike thru it, inside the Strike spells out Nolan. Possible (?) to avoid confusion with a overstamped / transfer / other maker part that to determine a Nolan made part the Company Badge N the Strike was moved forward. Thus being N- for a Nolan Part ?? Example of the Nolan Badge Food for thought ? Ch-P777
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New2brass Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Dan Pinto, How Can I help Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CCC Status: Offline Points: 5527	Post Options Post Reply Quote New2brass Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Mar 19 2025 at 7:41am
	good work Charlie! I think doing a N would be overkill on a small part. We do see plenty of parts marked with the Sub-Prime using a dash. What I do find interesting is that most, but not all Sta Pro marked parts started with the "S" Look at the picture I posted and comparing it looks as if the making is N-S and not S-N. Either way the pin is most likely Nolan made. Stinks that the N and S are the same upside down. I looked into Nolan Rochester and no luck. I did not check WB3 to see if corrected. As to ordnance contracts, the reporting threshold was $50,000, In today's money about 885,000. The only contract listed was "ordnance equipment" for 51,000, so just over the threshold. This contract started in June of 1945 and delivered a month later.
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painter777 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Hard Corps Joined: Feb 18 2016 Location: Central MI Status: Offline Points: 2352	Post Options Post Reply Quote painter777 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Mar 19 2025 at 10:09pm
	No smoking gun, but in the Alphabetical Listing of War Industrial Facilities Financed with Public Funds Through June 1944 Heading reads: Authorizations of War Industrial Facilities Financed with Public Funds Through June 1944 This is a Google Book, same one I found info on Ferro Machine & Foundry. The Nolan info is on page 88, be it little help. I assumed the Funding was for Tooling, but Note the Date of the report: Through June 1944. After reading the introduction closer I see these Funds were intended for cost of Expansion and any needed special Tooling and only those of $25,000 or more in the continental US will be listed. On the form for Nolan it's blank under 'Facilities' But shows $257,000 in the Equipment and Total categories. Assume the Shop was likely big enough so probably gearing up Re-Tooling for the Contract in 1945 that Dan had mentioned. At the time of the Grant, Nolan hadn't reported any new employees added yet. Dan mentioned that so far: " As to ordnance contracts, the reporting threshold was $50,000.." "The only contract listed was "ordnance equipment" for ($51,000,) so just over the threshold. This contract started in June of 1945 and delivered a month later." If we have it here that The War Dept invested over $257,000 in or Pre 44 in to the Nolan Plant surely we're missing some other contracts or 'Service to be Rendered'. $257,000 seems like a large investment towards just Firing Pins. Searching this same Alphabetical Listing of War Industrial Facilities Financed with Public Funds from 1946 which includes 1945 results I see no more funding or even a listing for Nolan, which would mean no more funding for expanding or Tooling unless it was under the must report amount of $25,000. Maybe their work was complete. I found a teaser in a Technical Journal from 1945 called 'Inland Printer, American Lithographer - Volume 116 page 75. In a Google books lead, but it's not on file. Part of the prelude reads: NOLAN CORPORATION Rome , New York Parts for machine guns and parts for ... I can't find it anywhere to open or download. Below is the info from the Alphabetical Listing of War Industrial Facilities Financed with Public Funds Through June 1944 described above. I'll try a Link below, but this is the jest of it. Though some other Carbine Subs and Primes can be found there if interested. Remember Nolan is on page 88. https://www.google.com/books/edition/_/G4ZIAQAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PA46&dq=Military+items+made+by+Ferro+Machine+%26+Foundry+Co. Nolan Machinery Co. Rome N.Y. has listed under....... The War Products Column: Component Parts Financing Agency: War Dept Cost: (+000) Total: $257(000) Structures: -- Equipment: $257(000) Employment Added: -- @Dan, Did you look how well the Milling Marks match up on the Tails of the N-U, N-S and N-N Picture you posted? Sorry so long for so little, Ch-P777
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NPM Firing Pin?

Alphabetical Listing of War Industrial Facilities Financed with Public Funds Through June 1944

Alphabetical Listing of War Industrial Facilities Financed with Public Funds Through June 1944 described above. I'll try a Link below, but this is the jest of it. Though some other Carbine Subs and Primes can be found there if interested.