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M1 Carbine USMC Qualification Course of Fire

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usmc69 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usmc69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: M1 Carbine USMC Qualification Course of Fire
    Posted: Oct 14 2025 at 4:12pm
Does anyone have the USMC Qualification Course of Fire for the M1 Carbine?  Have searched all over and can not find it.  TIA
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 14 2025 at 7:58pm
The U.S Marine Corps Score Book (pictured below) lists the course of fire as 300 yd Slow Fire, 300 yd Rapid Fire, 100 and 200 yd Surprise Fire. The score book does not say how many rounds are fired in each stage and I have no what the "Surprise Fire" stage consisted of. This particular score book is dated 1944, but used into the 50's.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pete51577 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 14 2025 at 8:30pm
In the archives of the JFK assassination there are copies of the USMC score/qualification book of Lee Harvey Oswald.  It's for the carbine.  I'll try to find copies of the copies.  I don't think the serial number blank was filled in.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_X Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 14 2025 at 10:34pm
Establishing the various qualifications for the carbine and rifle was a project that I was kindof Gung-ho on and then put aside.  I probably have enough information to 'publish' an article, but thought it would be better to hold off until we could fill in some holes. 

U.S. Army qualifications were contained in the Field Manuals and change orders at least into the 1950s.  Also we have a number of wartime publications that help us understand what was actually being done at various training facilities, especially Ft. Hood.  But around 1952, the qualification requirements get a little murky with many rapid changes and the adoption of the Train-Fire system. 

For the Marine Corps, small arms training was spelled out in the MCOs (mostly).  From these we have a pretty good picture of what was done through most of the war, and up through 1948.  I don't recall if there are more recent MCOs digitized on the web.

Wayne - I thought I found a specific answer to the surprise targets - but don't recall where.  I'm sure it will pop up again if we dig into it.

The short answer is that the USMC dropped shooting for record with the carbine for most of WW2.  Qualification was done with the rifle, which included the pay bonus incentive.  Training for all ther small arms was done through familiarization courses.   When KD qualification record returned, it was basically the same as the Army's.  I suspect it diverged around 1950-1952

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_X Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 16 2025 at 7:24pm
On a website about William McMillian, they indicate his record only shows a carbine familiarization course in 1952.

If anyone has additional information about USMC Carbine training and qualifications, especially after WW2, please share.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Matt_X Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 30 2025 at 1:36pm
Originally posted by W5USMC W5USMC wrote:

... and I have no what the "Surprise Fire" stage consisted of. 

Surprise target set up is illustrated in the Oct 1951 FM 23-5 figures 129, 130, 131, 132.
These are used for the Transition Firing excercises given in tables VII and VIII. 
Table VIII was supposed to be scored for record.  See page 255 and the ones that follow.
Basically they are E targets (representing prone silouettes) that are briefly presented as targets on a field course. 

Next we can look at the USMC orders for early 1945 to see how the reinstated carbine qualification may have used these pop-up E-targets.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 30 2025 at 5:42pm
Originally posted by Matt_X Matt_X wrote:

Basically they are E targets (representing prone silouettes) that are briefly presented as targets on a field course. 

Thanks Matt, but isn't an E target the full-size silhouette, The D is the "head and shoulder" "tombstone" "prone silhouette" target. The score book shows the full size "E" for the surprise fire.


Edited by W5USMC - Oct 30 2025 at 6:15pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_X Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 30 2025 at 6:48pm
Originally posted by W5USMC W5USMC wrote:

Originally posted by Matt_X Matt_X wrote:

Basically they are E targets (representing prone silouettes) that are briefly presented as targets on a field course. 

Thanks Matt, but isn't an E target the full-size silhouette, The D is the "head and shoulder" "tombstone" "prone silhouette" target. The score book shows the full size "E" for the surprise fire.

My error!
You're right D is the prone, which what is illustrated in the figures but both VII and VIII say to use E targets (taller silhoutte).

As to the score book. We're going to have to go back in the chronology to see if we can tie it to the MCO.
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