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Identify this rear sight...?
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watchdog49 View Drop Down
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    Posted: Jul 13 2018 at 11:29am
Hi all, Some time ago I acquired a first production block Inland (S/N 613202) as a shooter...typical post-war rebuild in decent condition. It came on a FAT79 stock and is BLUE SKY import marked, so presumably was in Italian service. It has an adjustable rear sight whose markings I have been unable to identify in my researches (right side TI, left side 86 11). Does anyone recognize this? Thanks for any information you can provide!
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Points: 3640 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 14 2018 at 12:13pm
watchdog, I cannot say for sure but according to a couple of old posts on milsurps the TI is for Tong Industries, Korea.
Here are the links.
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=13238&page=1

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=24693
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watchdog49 View Drop Down
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Points: 45 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watchdog49 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 14 2018 at 5:44pm
Aha, that sure appears to be it....right down to the numbers on the left side. As I say, this is not a collector gun so it was mostly just a matter of curiosity to me. I've owned quite a few carbines over the past 30 years and had just never seen this before. Many thanks to you sir, from a grateful fellow Missourian!
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Nice work Wayne ! Thumbs Up
I remember that old Surps thread.
At that time back in 2009 (?) it was the first T.I I had ever seen.
Have seen a few more since then, but never seen 2 that had the numbers match, until today... in this case 86 11

BTW: Welcome to the forum Watchdog49

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Points: 1736 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m1a1fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 14 2018 at 9:38pm
Great post Wayne, thanks for the link. First I've heard of a TI rear sight. Welcome to the forum watchdog and thanks for sharing. Always room to learn.
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watchdog49 View Drop Down
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Points: 45 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watchdog49 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 15 2018 at 3:29pm
Thank you all, gentlemen, for your gracious welcome to the forum. Now that I have retired I hope to be able to participate more actively in the discussions of the carbine collecting hobby. Interesting that both these TI sights with matching "numbers" are found on rebuilt 6-digit Inlands....surely just coincidence I suppose. Anyhow the sight seems well made and the rifle is a very good shooter, with typical parts mix -- Winchester bolt and trigger housing, Underwood slide, and Rock-ola front sight. I believe the barrel is not original to the receiver; it is Inland but dated 2-44, too late for this receiver. Is it appropriate to post images of shooter-grade carbines on this site? Thanks!
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Could you post a close-up picture of the top of the barrel next to the receiver. I'm interested to see if there is a corresponding FAT stamp there. Also, what is the general condition of the parkerizing of the metal? Is it all one color and texture? This is often characteristic of Italian returns.
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watchdog49 View Drop Down
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Points: 45 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote watchdog49 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 16 2018 at 1:51pm
Greetings Jack -- please see the images, I cannot see any marking on the barrel at the location you mention; so I would probably assume the barrel replacement was performed prior to its provision to Italy. Interestingly though, the 'p' barrel proof is not located under the type C band....my understanding has been that the proof was normally placed a couple of inches in front of whatever band was installed on the carbine, so if the barrel was originally on a rifle with a type A or B band, seems like it should be covered up. And this barrel date is certainly too early to have been paired with an original type C band, even at Inland. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable on the site can comment. As to the color, you can see that it appears very uniform between barrel and receiver, although to the naked eye I would not say they are identical. Don't know how that compares with other Italian returns.
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Points: 2352 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 16 2018 at 2:50pm
To JP and Watchdog,
I've seen instances where crooked dealers/owners have filed the Star/number and or fat stamp from the top of this area.
Please note I'm not making any judgement on this carbine or the OP.

but I have seen it done. Instead of showing the light milling grooves on top, after markings have been filed away, the finish is removed leaving a smooth area.
Some have been touched up with a type of bluing or oxpho.

JP,
Do you know what I mean ?

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painter777 View Drop Down
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All,
Here's a picture of the marking I'm talking about and a link to where we were finding/questioning if the markings were being removed.
As if a barrel had this marking, were some removing it because they thought it de-valued the piece as if it was a Import stamp.

CH-P777

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=61723
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Dan Pinto, How Can I help

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 Blue Sky imports mostly have a light gray finish, though some did not need refinishing. These came from South Korea.
 
Weren't the carbines that went to Italy observed with a black finish?
 
 
 
The question would be how it got from Italy to South Korea? Unlikely but not impossible.
 
I would not assume that because it has a FAT stock that the carbine was imported with that stock. I also would scrutinize the barrel to see is it has been swapped out by previous owner or during rebuild.
 
 
A great many Bavarian returns had parts stripped and put on other carbines. I would take an original appearing Bavarian over a corrected carbine with Bavarian refinished parts.
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Points: 1736 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m1a1fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 16 2018 at 5:34pm
Once bought an IBM carbine with a great birch stock. It was a CMP return and had the paperwork. Found the same small FAT stamp which wasn't described by the seller and was dissapointed. Sold it. I now wish I had not. Had a piece of documented history from WW2, Italy and who knows where else and I sold it. Live and learn. Will find another one some day.
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I admit to running a bit hazy in the head lately, but if I may ask:
How or why does a link to Korea come in to play?
Is it because of the Korean T.I rear sight?

If so, in the link above to Milsurps posted by Wayne (Thx Wayne) on page 2 it was stated by BQ that:

" A lot of Korean made parts and accessories have found their way into the US unattached to Korean Imports."

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painter777 View Drop Down
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Points: 2352 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 16 2018 at 6:06pm
Did NPM ever use barrels from Inland ? I don't recall.
May just be me, but when looking at Watchdogs picture of the P stamp, it almost looks like another small p stamped above it slightly to the left with a punch mark ?

Again could just be me and not sure of NPM use of Inland barrels, unless it's a replacement from a NPM.
I'll stop now......... confusing myself.

Apologies,
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Points: 1450 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jackp1028 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 16 2018 at 6:15pm
I believe the FAT stock was added after this carbine was imported from South Korea. Perhaps the Korean stock had some kind of problem and was replaced. Korean returned stocks are often in poor condition.

Dan, I agree with your comment regarding the black finish on an Italian return. My early QHMC CMP FAT carbine is like that.

Charlie, I agree with your assessment as well. An Inland barrel should have consistent milling marks and parkerizing from the receiver to the gas cylinder. Here's an example:
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Thanks JP,
Always appreciate your input.

Side note- Any rain out there yet?
Our first light rain here today in over 6 weeks. Have never seen it so dry and so many no camp fire warnings state wide.

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Charlie, we've gotten 1 1/2" of rain in the last three days...finally. Today there was a break in the weather that allowed me to go out and do some shooting. We're supposed to be into our monsoon season now.

BTW, are all Blue Sky imports from South Korea?
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Originally posted by jackp1028 jackp1028 wrote:

Charlie, we've gotten 1 1/2" of rain in the last three days...finally. Today there was a break in the weather that allowed me to go out and do some shooting. We're supposed to be into our monsoon season now.

BTW, are all Blue Sky imports from South Korea?

I can't remember, about brain dead from weeks of heat index over 100 here.
We can't handle that in Michigan.
a guess would be Blue Sky got them where ever they could ??
I'll ask on Surps.

Maybe best to ask Jim M.
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Dan Pinto, How Can I help

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Originally posted by painter777 painter777 wrote:

may ask: How or why does a link to Korea come in to play?
Is it because of the Korean T.I rear sight?
 
Charlie, the link to Korea is in what the OP said
 
Originally posted by watchdog49 watchdog49 wrote:

  It came on a FAT79 stock and is BLUE SKY import marked, 
 
As far as I know Blue Sky stamped barrels were all imported from South Korea, but I am only going off what Jim has on the main pages.

Double Posts Combined:

As to the OPs pictures of breech of barrel, would like to see picture from different angle. What we may be seeing is light glaring off it at a different angle causing it to look scrubbed
 
If you look at 3rd block update you will see that Inland was putting punch marks just forward of breech. Looks to be present to the right on barrel.
Up till 2-44 dated barrels on Inlands were observed with a letter or number. For 2-44 the letter R was observed. Being on the cusp it is possible this had stopped or if the barrel was scrubbed we are not seeing it.
 
Since contracts were pulled for NPM and last deliveries in 4-44 I would say unlikely to be on a NPM, but never say never
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Dan Pinto, How Can I help

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Points: 5527 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 17 2018 at 10:32am
I confirmed with Jim, The story with Blue Sky was interesting and extensive that it might make a good stand alone article.
Bottom line Blue Sky was a one shot import from South Korea alone.
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