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Undocumented lateral transfer front site to IBM

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HammerGrunt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote HammerGrunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Undocumented lateral transfer front site to IBM
    Posted: Jun 20 2024 at 8:54pm
I got my very first IBM and after taking it apart, I was able to verify that it’s all correct for metal parts and stock, but it does have an unusual marked front site. 

After doing some research with other members, it appears that this Brazed front site was made by subcontractor named Prestol and was marked with a PD over SG and it appears to be a formally not reported and undocumented lateral transfer part that may have went to IBM early 1944. Dan Pinto did an amazing article 4 years ago it said the following;


Does anyone else have a front site made with these manufacturer stamps?






Edited by HammerGrunt - Jun 20 2024 at 9:23pm
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carbinekid View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbinekid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 21 2024 at 3:37pm
Very interesting. Can’t say that I’ve ever seen that marking before!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike in NC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 21 2024 at 3:57pm
I had a loose PD over SG marked stamped front sight like that once. Sold it to a collector in Oregon many years ago.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Donnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 22 2024 at 12:12pm
Interesting! My recently acquired IBM has a "PO B" stamped front sight. 
My S'G' has an "N" stamped front sight.

When they get arsenaled, things can change. Ermm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HammerGrunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 22 2024 at 1:41pm
Yes, when they go back through arsenal, they can end up with a number of different types of parts, but this IBM Doesn’t show any characteristics of having gone thru a post WW2 arsenal process. I had a very knowledgeable long time M1 carbine researcher closely examine this barrel & front site he believes it came this way when it was manufactured. He said it Looks like it’s never been removed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HammerGrunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 22 2024 at 1:42pm
Yes, when they go back through an arsenal inspection and refurbishment they can end up with a number of different types of parts, but this IBM Doesn’t show any characteristics of having gone thru a post WW2 arsenal process. I had a very knowledgeable M1 carbine researcher closely examine this barrel & front site he believes it came this way when it was manufactured. He said it Looks like it’s never been removed.

Edited by HammerGrunt - Jun 22 2024 at 2:00pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cowboy9807 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 22 2024 at 1:46pm
I have a "broken" front sight (one of the brazed sides is cracked loose) marked PO Q.  It was on my Quality Hardware.  I have been looking for a replacement for quite a while without any luck.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Smokpole Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 22 2024 at 7:03pm
Originally posted by Donnie Donnie wrote:

Interesting! My recently acquired IBM has a "PO B" stamped front sight. 
My S'G' has an "N" stamped front sight.

When they get arsenaled, things can change. Ermm


Mine also has an N stamped front sight, but it also has the number 2 stamped on the left side!
Grand Rapids/ IP did use some Nieder made front sights.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 27 2024 at 2:28pm
War Baby1 pg 429 shows Prestol Div of Detroit Harvester as being an added subcontractor for Saginaw Grand Rapids plant. It shows no part marking
War Baby 3 add the marking just as "PD" however states it was Planert Skate as the manufacturer.
War Baby 1 page 405 shows  Planert Skate Company as being added to make front sights for Rockola and marked RP

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/uploads/3657/SightFtPlanert.jpg

Has anyone ever observed a type 2 sight marked just PD?
I believe this was an error fitting a code to a known manufacturer. Think about it, what would PD mean? D is not a code for any prime contractor.
The simple answer is PD stands for Prestol Devices, and the SG below clarifies that it was for Saginaw Steering Gear.

War Baby 1 pg 114 has the information of the introduction to the fabricated (stamped/brazed) components and in Jan 1943 fabricated sights made by Prestol were being experimented with.
Sights were sent to Inland and Underwood.

We know that Prestol made front sights, as well as Simpro. There is no indication that Planert, who only made front sights mentioned above, made any fabricated front sights.

I discuss the fabricated front sights as well as the markings here

Here we have some transfer Type 2 front sights. We know Prestol made the front sights marked P as well as PO B, PO Q, EU, PD/SG. What is not addressed are the Tyoe 2 front sights marked RP as shown below. If you compare the font to the RP marked on the front you will see they are not consistent. With the transfers of known markings used by Prestol, and absent any other info I would say that Rockola needed some front sights and Prestol had some of the sights marked for other prime contractors on hand and over stamped them RP.
It is possible they were transfers from other prime contractors as we know Underwood sent RO front sights. QHMC was right down the street and we have seen some undocumented transfers between them.

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/uploads/3657/SightFtPrestol.jpg




As to the Prestol PD/SG marked front sight on on an otherwise original looking IBM with no sights of the front sight being off, I would say that it is probable that they were sent directly from Prestol to IBM, possibly in with the PO B sights.


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