3 in Circle IP Receiver Marking ?

I also checked my copy of "The Standard Directory of Proof Marks," and did not find it referenced for any country.

David

Is it currently known if any 1911s or M1 rifles went to Europe alongside of the carbines either Lent or sold to Europe during that specific time frame? I would imagine if they were in possession of other small US arms at the same time they were using the carbine, you would think similar three in a circle marks would appear on those as well, if it was a marking of some kind due to maintenance. Since Dan has referenced a number four in a circle, I wonder if they could represent the four zones that Germany was divided into after the war? Each number meaning a zone. And since the number three is reported the most often, I wonder if zone 3 whatever that would be was the biggest zone? Needing more carbines? But you would think since Germany was under allied control at that time that if the numbers represented zones, that it would appear in American literature somewhere along the way.

This post is regarding the circled 3 and similar numbers/markings discussed in this thread. For many folks it's kinda redundant and known. But we all get started somewhere.

It's been my experience with importers/exporters they do not place any markings on the guns they move unless they are legally required to do so. Such as with the importer markings here in the USA. Then when required, they tend to make them as little as possible and in not so obvious places. In part because they take time and effort they'd rather spend doing other things. In part because some know it tends to devalue what they seek to make a profit on. As a side note, the largest and most obnoxious import markings were done by Blue Sky in Arlington, VA on returns from South Korea in the 90's. Why they were so large and obnoxious likely had something to do with politics at the time, during the Clinton administration and the legal battles being fought to stop Blue Sky. Interesting history.

Also, there are a few countries in Europe that require import marks. Also a few that require export marks. Also keep in mind some countries who sold their carbines required they be sold to a licensed exporter/wholesaler in their country. Who then sold them to one or more others worldwide. But none I'm aware of put any markings on carbines unless legally required.

Knowing if and what import markings are present on these carbines with the circled 3 may help solve this mystery as we often know which company imported carbines from where.

Government Arsenal/Inspector proof marks happen because there are laws by a particular nation that require them, what they must consist of, and where they must be placed. For which there is documentation. Assembling this documentation for all the various countries has been an insurmountable task. In part because of how often those laws have changed over time. In part because some countries have not been cooperative in sharing historical documents, if they even have them or can find them. Throughout Europe, historically, the focus from the start has been certifying a gun barrel and/or breach and/or bolt, have been tested as safe. After which various markings were/are placed on the barrel, bolt (where required), and sometimes on the receiver attached to that barrel/bolt. When on the receiver, the mark(s) have usually been placed on the front of the receiver where they will be seen. These markings have consistently indicated where the testing was done and/or by who and what type of test(s) were done (such is a nitro powder/pressure test). Also when and sometimes a lot more. The circled 3's and other similar marks discussed in this thread aren't consistent with Arsenal proof marks.

Arsenal rebuild marks also happen because there are law/directives/regulations that require them. The U.S. military required them on rebuilds inside the continental USA, directed they not be used by any of their facilities anywhere outside the USA. But other countries also did them, most notably Italy. The markings usually indicate which arsenal/inspection site rebuilt/inspected them. Sometimes a date. These marks have consistently been placed somewhere on the rear half of the stock. I'm not aware of anyone finding them on a receiver.

U.S. carbines provided to West German police agencies during the American Occupation after WWII, the marks, what they should consist of, and where they were placed were mandated by Occupation law. Austria had a similar law when they received their carbines at the end of the occupation in 1955. The circled 3 and similar were not part of these. Individual land/states in West Germany and Austria sometimes added markings, as did individual agencies, and also individual users. Which happened in other countries too. During my research into the carbines provided to West German and Austrian agencies I haven't seen this circled 3 or similar on any of the many I've been lucky to get eyes and hands on.

My best guess: The fact these circled 3's are on more than a few carbines obviously indicates a they were part of a routine procedure somewhere. That they are most often located on top of the receiver bevel where they can easily be seen suggests they needed to be easily located and visible. That the majority have a 3 and not a bunch of different letters/numbers, suggests some type of certification, or a location with only 1 inspector. Maybe a 2nd with that circled 4. Or maybe it certifies something different. But definitely something only the people who needed to know would know and recognize. Whatever it was, was likely important enough to warrant the time, effort, and messing with the finish on the receiver.

I think the answer to this mystery may come from knowing any and all other non original markings that are present, especially any importer markings.

Jim