Click on the image above to learn more about the M1 Carbine
|
Carbine Clip Case |
Post Reply
|
| Author | |
Dan's Notes
Recruit
Joined: Jun 21 2025 Status: Offline Points: 9 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Topic: Carbine Clip CasePosted: Dec 04 2025 at 1:10pm |
|
Case, Cal.30 Carbine Clip ![]() Topic of discussion is the case pictured above and what was it intended purpose? Was it to hold clips or magazines? And when did it appear? One would think a bag full of magazines could be noisy. Could the same be said with a case full of clips? Well there is an identical case that is labeled Case Ammunition and has the same stock number as the one above. So clearly it was to carry ammo in the very basic of sense. ![]() During WW2 the Standard Nomenclature System was in use and part numbers had a prefix for the size of the drawing number for the item. The seven digit number on this case, 7052438 does not fall in to this system, however late war SNLs the seven digit numbers started replacing the parts numbers. For more on this please see Bill Ricca's page Numbers, Numbers, Numbers Here is a case that has a different part number. Now I do not know if the dimensions are different based on the SNL identifier D90343, note the "D". The Ricca article does mention some random reassignments of number in 7xxxxxx range. This case was for the Thompson Sub Machine Gun in caliber .45. However we have the same dilemma, The case states "clip" but to the best of my knowledge the Thompson never had a stripper clip. ![]() Another interesting point with this case is it was with its packaging with the stock number G-104-65-90242 (as best as I can see it) which would put it in the later Federal Stock Number system of 11 digits, with G being a group series that were designated to represent "tank / automotive materiel". The package also had the item number of D-90242 and may have been a repack post war. So was this for use for storing ammo in vehicles? Back to the Carbine Case, the back has provision so it could be slid on a web belt, as well as a carry strap that could be shouldered or carried by. But if you go back to the top picture you can see there is a strap that is sewed inside with one side to the back and the other to the front. This is typically to be able to pull out what ever was in a case. I cannot see it being useful for a bunch of magazines, the same goes for a bunch of clips. This got me thinking. On the left is two bandoleers of carbine ammo totaling 240 rounds. It fits in well and the inside strap efficiently pulls out both bandoleers. On the right is a package that would hold 10 empty magazines. It fits in the case with more room than the clips. Again, the strap would pull the package out very conveniently. Now I would say that because there is nomenclature on the case, that this was indeed for carrying clips vs empty packaged magazines, but there is the tiny detail of the sub gun "clips" Was there a period of time the nomenclature was used for magazines? doubt it, but I would love to hear what others know or speculate. Edited by W5USMC - Dec 04 2025 at 10:53pm |
|
![]() |
|
Jond41403
Hard Corps
Joined: Feb 21 2021 Location: East Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 874 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Dec 04 2025 at 8:48pm |
|
I think you're right about the two bandoliers being the idea for that bag for the most part, also substituting for whatever else you could cram in there if you didn't have bandoliers. But the clips being mentioned specifically makes me think bandoliers and that strap would pull both sets out instantly in an emergency. And since it can be hooked to a web belt it's probably just back up bandoliers for when somebody on the line runs low maybe? I have never seen any government publication call what I know of as magazines, clips. Clips is a Hollywood or civilian slang in my opinion, or maybe even a term that was came up with by the soldiers themselves and carried on into civilian life. But I'm thinking maybe it's just a way to keep a couple bandoliers contained without slinging around everywhere like while being carried on the shoulder or in a vehicle. But the clips being mentioned on the submachine gun bag is a head scratcher.
|
|
![]() |
|
W5USMC
Moderator Group
Joined: Apr 29 2017 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 3640 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
Quote Reply
Posted: Dec 05 2025 at 12:09am |
|
As far as "clip" being used in place of magazine, see page 1318 of WBIII. Larry pictures both 4 mag and 6 mag pockets (holders) apparently used by the US Army Air Corps. He references an Army Air Forces catalogue that lists the pockets as "Holder Rifle Clip (Short)".
|
|
|
Wayne
USMC Retired NRA Life Member |
|
![]() |
|
Matt_X
Hard Corps
Joined: Nov 10 2020 Location: Phila, Penn Status: Offline Points: 1047 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Dec 05 2025 at 8:31am |
|
I think we're going to find more examples of 'clip' being used for magazine both in documents and in oral histories.
|
|
![]() |
|
Jond41403
Hard Corps
Joined: Feb 21 2021 Location: East Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 874 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Dec 05 2025 at 6:16pm |
|
that would be cool if some references could be found! I have always thought clips was a civilian thing. It wouldn't surprise me I don't guess because I do believe the government has referred to grenade cartridges as blanks in the past before even though we know they certainly are not blanks haha
|
|
![]() |
|
Matt_X
Hard Corps
Joined: Nov 10 2020 Location: Phila, Penn Status: Offline Points: 1047 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Dec 06 2025 at 7:16pm |
|
Here's an instance of using clip instead of magazine. FM 23-35 Basic Field Manual, Automatic Pistol Col .45 M1911 and M1911A1, 1940 Section III Conduct of Range Practice. on page 77 I think the fine distinction between clip, and magazine, and magazine wel,l was not important enough for many to stop using the term clip for any multiple loading device. The advent of clip devices for loading detachable magazines may have been the first time that it became somewhat important for the guys to know and use the correct term. edit. Lets see what a period dictionary has to offer. Webster's New International Dictionary of the English Language, 2nd edition, Unabridged. 1939 Clip, n. 7. Firearms. A device to hold cartridges for charging the magazine of some rifles; Also, the number so held. emphasis added
Edited by Matt_X - Dec 06 2025 at 7:44pm |
|
![]() |
|
David Albert
Hard Corps
Status Quo Challenger Joined: Dec 27 2015 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 1077 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
Quote Reply
Posted: Dec 08 2025 at 6:44pm |
Thank you for posting photos of these pouches. The Carbine marked pouch is particularly interesting. The case pictured above was not intended specifically for the Thompson Submachine Gun, but rather for the M3 "Greasegun." It holds 8 loaded Greasegun mags. It was referenced in TM 9-759 for the M4A3 Medium Tank (in 30 rd. "clips" D35506) with the Caliber .45 zSubmachine Gun M3.*, ** You are correct that there was no stripper clip for the Thompson. An earlier, similar pouch was used with the Thompson, two examples of which are pictured below from my collection. That's not to say that the Greasegun was not used with Thompson magazines, but the pouch came out after the M3 officially replaced the Thompson, though the Thompson served long after. ![]() I sold my Greasegun pouch to a friend earlier this year, but here is picture of it. ![]() The Case, Ammunition, 7052438 was a general ammunition pouch used for all kinds of ammunition. *, **, *** Another similar pouch used during WWII was the Ammunition Bag, M1, an example of which is pictured from my collection below. ![]() * Heidler, Michael, The U.S. M3/M3A1 Submachine Gun, Schiffer Military, 2020, p. 143 ** Heidler, Michael, The U.S. M3/M3A1 Submachine Gun, VDM, 2016, pp. 130-131 *** Iannamico, Frank, The U.S. M3-3A1 Submachine Gun, Moose Lake Publishing, 1999, p. 129 David Albert dalbert@sturmgewehr.com Edited by New2brass - Dec 08 2025 at 9:30pm |
|
|
NRA Life Member
Past Pres., The American Thompson Association Amer. Society of Arms Collectors OGCA/TCA/Carbine Club/GCA/IAA SAR Writer Author - The Many Firearm Designs of Eugene Reising Eagle Scout |
|
![]() |
|
New2brass
Moderator Group
Dan Pinto, How Can I help Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CCC Status: Offline Points: 5527 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Dec 08 2025 at 9:19pm |
|
David, good stuff!
Does the TM state 30 round clips? If so can you post picture along with date of the manual. I assume the number after was the stock or part number for the M3 mags. Can that be found in the same time period in a TM for the M3 magazines and description of magazine or clip.
|
|
![]() |
|
David Albert
Hard Corps
Status Quo Challenger Joined: Dec 27 2015 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 1077 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Dec 09 2025 at 4:00pm |
Hi Dan, Thank you. Yes, the TM states "Ammunition, Cal. .45 rounds (in 30 rd. clips D35506)...900...In cases D90242" Along with "Case, cal. .45 submachine gun clip...5" I don't have this particular manual in my collection, but a pic off a page from the TM is shown in Michael Heidler's 2020 Greasegun book on page 143. I have not posted it here for copyright reasons. In my personal collection, I have M3 Greasegun FM's and TM's. I did not locate any reference to "clips" in them. They were as follows: TM 9-217, Submachine Gun, Cal. .45, M3, 19 July 1943 FM 23-41, Submachine Gun, Cal. .45, M3, 30 October 1943 FM 23-41, Submachine Gun, Cal. .45, M3 and M3A1, August 1949 TM 9-1005-229-12, Operator's and Organizational Maintenance Manual Including Repair Parts and Special Tools Lists, Submachine Gun, Caliber .45: M3 W/E (1005-672-1767), Submachine Gun, Caliber .45: M3A1 W/E (1005-672-1771), October 1969 I could not find the stock number for the magazine listed in my 1940's FM's and TM. My 1969 TM lists the more recent Federal Stock Numbers, for which the magazine is 1005-565-3427. It also listed the magazine as "Magazine, Cartridge: 5653427 (19204)." I have another 1950's FM for the M3 that I could not locate, and if I find it, I will check for other info. I have seen other references to "clips" instead of magazines in FM's or TM's, or ORD SNL's. I don't recall the exact reference of the other "clips," but it was likely a Thompson reference. David Albert dalbert@sturmgewehr.com |
|
|
NRA Life Member
Past Pres., The American Thompson Association Amer. Society of Arms Collectors OGCA/TCA/Carbine Club/GCA/IAA SAR Writer Author - The Many Firearm Designs of Eugene Reising Eagle Scout |
|
![]() |
|
Jond41403
Hard Corps
Joined: Feb 21 2021 Location: East Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 874 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Dec 12 2025 at 2:47pm |
|
that is fantastic information! That proves without a doubt that at least for a period of time the government called magazines clips because a '30 rnd clip' has to be a 30 round magazine.
|
|
![]() |
|
David Albert
Hard Corps
Status Quo Challenger Joined: Dec 27 2015 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 1077 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Dec 15 2025 at 3:16pm |
Thank you. I have always asserted that manuals and other publications document "moments in time," and how things were perceived at the time they were published. The term "clips" has been a pervasive misnomer in our community for many decades. David Albert dalbert@sturmgewehr.com |
|
|
NRA Life Member
Past Pres., The American Thompson Association Amer. Society of Arms Collectors OGCA/TCA/Carbine Club/GCA/IAA SAR Writer Author - The Many Firearm Designs of Eugene Reising Eagle Scout |
|
![]() |
|
New2brass
Moderator Group
Dan Pinto, How Can I help Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CCC Status: Offline Points: 5527 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: Mar 11 2026 at 9:08am |
|
From CCNL 177-4 "Tote That Ammo" does an excerpt from PS monthly Magazine It's the ammunition magazine case, FSN 8465-705-2438, a QM item listed in Federal supply Catalog C2-15A, dated March 1960. The case is made of cotton duck and webbing and comes with a shoulder strap to make things easier. It'll carry a pretty good load of extra ammo for all of your small arms - like .45 caliber for your pistol and submachine gun; .30 caliber for the carbine and M1 and extra clips for your 7.62-mm M14 rifle. Note: a 1960 publication date is not when the item came into use. If you have earlier SNLs and other supply catalogs, check to narrow when this came into existence. It also does not answer the question of carbine clips or mags. the M14 is magazine fed and can be loaded with stripper clips
|
|
![]() |
|
Post Reply
|
|
| Forum Jump | Forum Permissions ![]() You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |