The Carbine Collectors Club

Click on the image above to learn more about the M1 Carbine


Forum Home Forum Home > The Club > Magazine Markings
  New Posts New Posts
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Link Buttons to, & Searches for, our Websites:

   

Searches this Website & Forum


Searches the above Website only

Searches the above Website only
Note: To search the Forum alone use the magnifier icon in the toolbar on the upper right

Carbine Clip Case

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
Dan's Notes View Drop Down
Recruit
Recruit


Joined: Jun 21 2025
Status: Offline
Points: 9
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan's Notes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Carbine Clip Case
    Posted: Dec 04 2025 at 1:10pm
Case, Cal.30 Carbine Clip

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/FORUM/uploads/7732/CaseClips.jpg

Topic of discussion is the case pictured above and what was it intended purpose? Was it to hold clips or magazines? And when did it appear?
One would think a bag full of magazines could be noisy. Could the same be said with a case full of clips?

Well there is an identical case that is labeled  Case Ammunition and has the same stock number as the one above. So clearly it was to carry ammo in the very basic of sense. 

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/FORUM/uploads/7732/CaseAmmo.jpg

During WW2 the Standard Nomenclature System was in use and part numbers had a prefix for the size of the drawing number for the item. The seven digit number on this case, 7052438 does not fall in to this system, however late war SNLs the seven digit numbers started replacing the parts numbers. For more on this please see Bill Ricca's page Numbers, Numbers, Numbers

Here is a case that has a different part number. Now I do not know if the dimensions are different based on the SNL identifier D90343, note the "D". The Ricca article does mention some random reassignments of number in 7xxxxxx range. 
This case was for the Thompson Sub Machine Gun in caliber .45. However we have the same dilemma, The case states "clip" but to the best of my knowledge the Thompson never had a stripper clip. 

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/FORUM/uploads/7732/CaseClips1.jpg

Another interesting point with this case is it was with its packaging with the stock number G-104-65-90242 (as best as I can see it) which would put it in the later Federal Stock Number system of 11 digits,  with G being a group series that were designated to represent "tank / automotive materiel". The package also had the item number of D-90242 and may have been a repack post war. 

So was this for use for storing ammo in vehicles?

Back to the Carbine Case, the back has provision so it could be slid on a web belt, as well as a carry strap that could be shouldered or carried by. But if you go back to the top picture you can see there is a strap that is sewed inside with one side to the back and the other to the front. This is typically to be able to pull out what ever was in a case. I cannot see it being useful for a bunch of magazines, the same goes for a bunch of clips. This got me thinking.

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/FORUM/uploads/7732/CaseClips2.JPG

On the left is two bandoleers of carbine ammo totaling 240 rounds. It fits in well and the inside strap efficiently pulls out both bandoleers. 
On the right is a package that would hold 10 empty magazines. It fits in the case with more room than the clips. Again, the strap would pull the package out very conveniently.

Now I would say that because there is nomenclature on the case, that this was indeed for carrying clips vs empty packaged magazines, but there is the tiny detail of the sub gun "clips"
Was there a period of time the nomenclature was used for magazines? doubt it, but I would love to hear what others know or speculate.






Edited by W5USMC - Dec 04 2025 at 10:53pm
Back to Top
Jond41403 View Drop Down
Hard Corps
Hard Corps


Joined: Feb 21 2021
Location: East Tennessee
Status: Offline
Points: 874
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jond41403 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 04 2025 at 8:48pm
I think you're right about the two bandoliers being the idea for that bag for the most part, also substituting for whatever else you could cram in there if you didn't have bandoliers. But the clips being mentioned specifically makes me think bandoliers and that strap would pull both sets out instantly in an emergency. And since it can be hooked to a web belt it's probably just back up bandoliers for when somebody on the line runs low maybe? I have never seen any government publication call what I know of as magazines, clips. Clips is a Hollywood or civilian slang in my opinion, or maybe even a term that was came up with by the soldiers themselves and carried on into civilian life. But I'm thinking maybe it's just a way to keep a couple bandoliers contained without slinging around everywhere  like while being carried on the shoulder or in a vehicle. But the clips being mentioned on the submachine gun bag is a head scratcher.
Back to Top
W5USMC View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: Apr 29 2017
Location: Missouri
Status: Offline
Points: 3640
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 05 2025 at 12:09am
As far as "clip" being used in place of magazine, see page 1318 of WBIII. Larry pictures both 4 mag and 6 mag pockets (holders) apparently used by the US Army Air Corps. He references an Army Air Forces catalogue that lists the pockets as "Holder Rifle Clip (Short)".   
Wayne
USMC Retired
NRA Life Member
Back to Top
Matt_X View Drop Down
Hard Corps
Hard Corps
Avatar

Joined: Nov 10 2020
Location: Phila, Penn
Status: Offline
Points: 1047
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_X Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 05 2025 at 8:31am
I think we're going to find more examples of 'clip' being used for magazine both in documents and in oral histories. 
Back to Top
Jond41403 View Drop Down
Hard Corps
Hard Corps


Joined: Feb 21 2021
Location: East Tennessee
Status: Offline
Points: 874
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jond41403 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 05 2025 at 6:16pm
that would be cool if some references could be found! I have always thought clips was a civilian thing. It wouldn't surprise me I don't guess because I do believe the government has referred to grenade cartridges as blanks in the past before even though we know they certainly are not blanks haha
Back to Top
Matt_X View Drop Down
Hard Corps
Hard Corps
Avatar

Joined: Nov 10 2020
Location: Phila, Penn
Status: Offline
Points: 1047
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_X Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 06 2025 at 7:16pm
Here's an instance of using clip instead of magazine.
FM 23-35 Basic Field Manual, Automatic Pistol Col .45 M1911 and M1911A1,  1940

Section III Conduct of Range Practice. on page 77


I think the fine distinction between clip, and magazine, and magazine wel,l was not important enough for many to stop using the term clip for any multiple loading device.  The advent of clip devices for loading detachable magazines may have been the first time that it became somewhat important for the guys to know and use the correct term.

edit.
Lets see what a period dictionary has to offer.
Webster's New International Dictionary of the English Language, 2nd edition, Unabridged. 1939
Clip, n.
7. Firearms.  A device to hold cartridges for charging the magazine of some rifles; Also, the number so heldemphasis added


Edited by Matt_X - Dec 06 2025 at 7:44pm
Back to Top
David Albert View Drop Down
Hard Corps
Hard Corps
Avatar
Status Quo Challenger

Joined: Dec 27 2015
Location: Ohio
Status: Offline
Points: 1077
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote David Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 08 2025 at 6:44pm
Originally posted by Dan's Notes Dan's Notes wrote:


This case was for the Thompson Sub Machine Gun in caliber .45. However we have the same dilemma, The case states "clip" but to the best of my knowledge the Thompson never had a stripper clip. http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/FORUM/uploads/7732/CaseClips1.jpg




Thank you for posting photos of these pouches. The Carbine marked pouch is particularly interesting.

The case pictured above was not intended specifically for the Thompson Submachine Gun, but rather for the M3 "Greasegun." It holds 8 loaded Greasegun mags. It was referenced in TM 9-759 for the M4A3 Medium Tank (in 30 rd. "clips" D35506) with the Caliber .45 zSubmachine Gun M3.*, ** You are correct that there was no stripper clip for the Thompson.

An earlier, similar pouch was used with the Thompson, two examples of which are pictured below from my collection. That's not to say that the Greasegun was not used with Thompson magazines, but the pouch came out after the M3 officially replaced the Thompson, though the Thompson served long after.


I sold my Greasegun pouch to a friend earlier this year, but here is picture of it.


The Case, Ammunition, 7052438 was a general ammunition pouch used for all kinds of ammunition. *, **, ***

Another similar pouch used during WWII was the Ammunition Bag, M1, an example of which is pictured from my collection below.



* Heidler, Michael, The U.S. M3/M3A1 Submachine Gun, Schiffer Military, 2020, p. 143
** Heidler, Michael, The U.S. M3/M3A1 Submachine Gun, VDM, 2016, pp. 130-131
*** Iannamico, Frank, The U.S. M3-3A1 Submachine Gun, Moose Lake Publishing, 1999, p. 129

David Albert
dalbert@sturmgewehr.com


Edited by New2brass - Dec 08 2025 at 9:30pm
NRA Life Member
Past Pres., The American Thompson Association
Amer. Society of Arms Collectors
OGCA/TCA/Carbine Club/GCA/IAA
SAR Writer
Author - The Many Firearm Designs of Eugene Reising
Eagle Scout
Back to Top
New2brass View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Dan Pinto, How Can I help

Joined: Nov 29 2015
Location: CCC
Status: Offline
Points: 5527
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 08 2025 at 9:19pm
David, good stuff!
Does the TM state 30 round clips? If so can you post picture along with date of the manual. 
I assume the number after was the stock or part number for the M3 mags. Can that be found in the same time period in a TM for the M3 magazines and description  of magazine or clip. 
Back to Top
David Albert View Drop Down
Hard Corps
Hard Corps
Avatar
Status Quo Challenger

Joined: Dec 27 2015
Location: Ohio
Status: Offline
Points: 1077
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 09 2025 at 4:00pm
Originally posted by New2brass New2brass wrote:

David, good stuff!
Does the TM state 30 round clips? If so can you post picture along with date of the manual. 
I assume the number after was the stock or part number for the M3 mags. Can that be found in the same time period in a TM for the M3 magazines and description  of magazine or clip. 


Hi Dan,

Thank you.

Yes, the TM states "Ammunition, Cal. .45 rounds (in 30 rd. clips D35506)...900...In cases D90242"

Along with "Case, cal. .45 submachine gun clip...5"

I don't have this particular manual in my collection, but a pic off a page from the TM is shown in Michael Heidler's 2020 Greasegun book on page 143. I have not posted it here for copyright reasons.

In my personal collection, I have M3 Greasegun FM's and TM's. I did not locate any reference to "clips" in them. They were as follows:

TM 9-217, Submachine Gun, Cal. .45, M3, 19 July 1943
FM 23-41, Submachine Gun, Cal. .45, M3, 30 October 1943
FM 23-41, Submachine Gun, Cal. .45, M3 and M3A1, August 1949
TM 9-1005-229-12, Operator's and Organizational Maintenance Manual Including Repair Parts and Special Tools Lists, Submachine Gun, Caliber .45: M3 W/E (1005-672-1767), Submachine Gun, Caliber .45: M3A1 W/E (1005-672-1771), October 1969

I could not find the stock number for the magazine listed in my 1940's FM's and TM. My 1969 TM lists the more recent Federal Stock Numbers, for which the magazine is 1005-565-3427. It also listed the magazine as "Magazine, Cartridge: 5653427 (19204)." I have another 1950's FM for the M3 that I could not locate, and if I find it, I will check for other info.

I have seen other references to "clips" instead of magazines in FM's or TM's, or ORD SNL's. I don't recall the exact reference of the other "clips," but it was likely a Thompson reference.

David Albert
dalbert@sturmgewehr.com






NRA Life Member
Past Pres., The American Thompson Association
Amer. Society of Arms Collectors
OGCA/TCA/Carbine Club/GCA/IAA
SAR Writer
Author - The Many Firearm Designs of Eugene Reising
Eagle Scout
Back to Top
Jond41403 View Drop Down
Hard Corps
Hard Corps


Joined: Feb 21 2021
Location: East Tennessee
Status: Offline
Points: 874
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jond41403 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 12 2025 at 2:47pm
that is fantastic information! That proves without a doubt that at least for a period of time the government called magazines clips because a '30 rnd clip' has to be a 30 round magazine.
Back to Top
David Albert View Drop Down
Hard Corps
Hard Corps
Avatar
Status Quo Challenger

Joined: Dec 27 2015
Location: Ohio
Status: Offline
Points: 1077
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 15 2025 at 3:16pm
Originally posted by Jond41403 Jond41403 wrote:

that is fantastic information! That proves without a doubt that at least for a period of time the government called magazines clips because a '30 rnd clip' has to be a 30 round magazine.


Thank you. I have always asserted that manuals and other publications document "moments in time," and how things were perceived at the time they were published. The term "clips" has been a pervasive misnomer in our community for many decades.

David Albert
dalbert@sturmgewehr.com
NRA Life Member
Past Pres., The American Thompson Association
Amer. Society of Arms Collectors
OGCA/TCA/Carbine Club/GCA/IAA
SAR Writer
Author - The Many Firearm Designs of Eugene Reising
Eagle Scout
Back to Top
New2brass View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Dan Pinto, How Can I help

Joined: Nov 29 2015
Location: CCC
Status: Offline
Points: 5527
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 11 2026 at 9:08am
From CCNL  177-4 "Tote That Ammo"  does an excerpt from PS monthly Magazine

It's the ammunition magazine case, FSN 8465-705-2438, a QM item listed in Federal
supply Catalog C2-15A, dated March 1960. The case is made of cotton duck and webbing
and comes with a shoulder strap to make things easier. It'll carry a pretty good
load of extra ammo for all of your small arms - like .45 caliber for your pistol and
submachine gun; .30 caliber for the carbine and M1 and extra clips for your 7.62-mm
M14 rifle.

Note: a 1960 publication date is not when the item came into use. If you have earlier SNLs and other supply catalogs, check to narrow when this came into existence. 
It also does not answer the question of carbine clips or mags. 
the M14 is magazine fed and can be loaded with stripper clips
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.08
Copyright ©2001-2026 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.068 seconds.