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Correct Bolt for 1944 Inland |
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Puffnstuff
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Topic: Correct Bolt for 1944 InlandPosted: Feb 21 2025 at 6:17pm |
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Puffnstuff
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Posted: Feb 21 2025 at 6:17pm |
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I was hoping someone could tell me if this bolt would be correct for an Inland with serial number 5448978. Also if it looks like its been refinished. It's marked IO and 3. Thanks
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jackp1028
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Posted: Feb 21 2025 at 8:59pm |
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Check out nearby serial numbers on the Inland Serial Number Spread Sheet to see what bolts they have. It might be a clue of what to expect on an original carbine. Check out S/N 544302X, 544306X and 5470895. They were made at about the same timeframe. They are blued, round bolts. Here's a link to the Spread Sheet.
http://uscarbinecal30.com/forum/CCNLs/Mfg%20Dates%20Inland.pdf |
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JackP
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Taraw1943
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Posted: Feb 21 2025 at 9:06pm |
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On your Bolt. If the finish matches the wear on the Carbine it Might be Okay. Bolts were All blued/Black Oxide finish. According to Carbine Club Newsletter 361-10 The change to Round bolt was around 5076xxx according to Data sheets. Overlap did occur for some time. Parts like Bolts were pre-assembled and in parts bins for fitters to put into carbines before head spacing. Bottom of bin parts went in later than normal. As stated, if finish and wear matches rest of Carbine may be correct.
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GotSnlB28
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Posted: Feb 22 2025 at 8:34am |
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To my eye, your bolt appears refinished. As mentioned the original finish will be dulite/blued. I have a few original Inlands in this serial range and they all have blued round bolts.
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Puffnstuff
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Posted: Feb 22 2025 at 12:46pm |
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The finish on the bolt is almost identical to the finish on the reciever. But im not sure if the reciever was refinished too.
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Marty Black
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Posted: Feb 22 2025 at 7:41pm |
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For new collectors: if you have a minty receiver or bolt (no tarnish, patina, wear), you can usually see "bare metal" in the punch mark on the receiver proof mark (and bolt proof mark) and also on the stake mark for the adjustable rear sight. That confirms original finish; not reparkerized or reblued. Simply put - the punch broke thru the parkerized or dulite finish, revealing bare steel.
FYI, this doesn't apply to the M1 Garand (in my experience). Either the punches used on Garands were wider/duller or not struck as hard...or the parkerizing was thicker than that of the Carbine. Actually, with the Garand, the quickest way to determine original finish is to open the bolt and look at the breech - where the barrel meets the receiver. If you see shiny bare metal, it's original finish. For what it's worth...but now I've wandered off-topic. Regards, mb |
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Marty Black
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Puffnstuff
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Posted: Feb 22 2025 at 7:52pm |
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Okay that makes sense..I'm not seeing bare metal in the stake mark or on either of the punch marks, so that would suggest that they've been refinished. Thanks for the info!
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Taraw1943
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Posted: Feb 23 2025 at 1:36pm |
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Gentlemen, Since this IS an Inland Carbine we must remember that Inland Reparked their Barreled receivers AFTER Assembled with front sight, Band and rear sight! This was common practice from early production. Reat sights often show the repark finish!!
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Posted: Feb 24 2025 at 8:59am |
Regarding Inland barrels: if you see an Inland barrel that has had its front sight taken off, most of them are completely bare looking like the barrel was never parked to begin with until later when the whole unit was parkerized. Just an observation from an old person. |
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Marty Black
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Posted: Feb 24 2025 at 10:21am |
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Another observation from an old person: Inland did indeed parkerize the barreled-receiver as a unit, with both sights and barrel band attached. However, the punch marks on barrel, receiver, and bolt weren't applied until the proof-firing stage of assembly, and the rear sight stake mark(s) weren't applied until targeting. So, on a minty Inland, we can still look for bare metal in those marks.
See CC NL 384-2. NL 336-13 documents the steps involved in proof-firing an Inland carbine. Regards, mb |
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Marty Black
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Puffnstuff
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Posted: Feb 24 2025 at 1:43pm |
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So just to make sure, youre both referring to the rear sight stake mark and the punch marks that are located on the reciever in front of the rear sight and on the top of the bolt? These were done after finish was applied so they should have bare metal.
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Jond41403
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Posted: Feb 24 2025 at 2:01pm |
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correct
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Marty Black
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Posted: Feb 24 2025 at 2:15pm |
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Yes, see those two NLs - 336-13 and 384-2. Re: rear sight stake marks - the various manufacturers used different staking tools, and bare metal is not a certainty. On flip sights, some manufacturers only bent down the corner of the dovetail with a blunt instrument. Others used a thin chisel type device that may not have broken thru the parkerizing. I suspect - but don't know for sure - that these stake marks were applied manually by a targeteer with a hammer.
On the adjustable rear sights that are factory-original only on late-production WRAs and Inlands, and perhaps a few other manufacturers (I forget!), the stake marks are generally bigger and rounder, and deeper, and so white metal is visible (at least, on those I've observed.) These are only my observations from decades of collecting carbines, although I haven't collected in over 20 years now. Other collectors' observations/opinions may differ. The Inland proof-firing document in NL 336 states that the receiver, barrel and bolt stake marks were stamped with a machine, so they are consistent (at least with Inland carbines). Again, in my observations, the punch mark on a really clean barrel may not show white metal because people routinely pick up a carbine by the barrel, and an accumulation of dirty hands and perspiration may tarnish that punch mark. Regards, mb |
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Marty Black
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painter777
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Posted: Feb 24 2025 at 4:48pm |
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The Bolt Pictured
Even if original Blue and only having seen light use would show finish wear behind the Left locking lug where it rotates/contacts the Locking shoulder. Look closely for Vertical lines there on the Bolt body just at the end of the Left Lug. More 'Rotational' wear lines would be on the Bolts' belly. And contact between the Bolts' Right lug and Op Slide would at the least show edge finish wear. The Punch on the Bolt also appears to be Blued In. IMO this Bolt has been Re-Blued. I would use it if needed as it appears well finished. Ch-P777
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Taraw1943
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Posted: Feb 24 2025 at 6:54pm |
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Yes, Marty I are an Old Person. Missed the part where Parkerizing was IN the Stake marks. Indicates Repark by Depot somewhere.
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Marty Black
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Posted: Feb 24 2025 at 7:20pm |
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Yes Tarawa, parkerizing in the stake marks (the craters) normally indicates a repark job, but if the stake marks were lightly applied - and never broke thru the parkerizing - we have to look further to determine if the finish is original.
(As Painter777 mentioned, wear patterns on a carbine's parts MUST match; if not, something ain't right.) In a previous post, I mentioned the M1 rifle's proof-firing marks. Either lightly applied with a dull blunt instrument, or the parkerizing on Garands was heavier/thicker than that on Carbines...because I cannot recall ever seeing "white metal" on a minty Garand receiver or bolt....BUT I HAVE seen it on the barrel proof mark (you gotta pull back the op rod to see it on the side of the chamber area). It takes a long time and a lot of carbines-observed to gain experience in Carbineology. At today's prices, and repro parts in abundance, very few people can afford to make very expensive mistakes. Stay close to those guys on the forum who are active collectors and learn as much as you can! Good collecting! mb |
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Marty Black
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Puffnstuff
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Posted: Feb 25 2025 at 3:14pm |
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I'm not really surprised that its been arsenal reparked, its still in very nice condition. I paid $1,900 for it, and I think its mostly correct.
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painter777
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Posted: Feb 25 2025 at 6:42pm |
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If purchased here in Michigan that price doesn't surprise me.
Nice looking Carbines run High here. Was it a Gun Show pick up? Maybe Novi? Maybe start a new topic and show us the complete Carbine ? Ch-P777
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