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First Marine Corps reciept and issue of carbines? |
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RedSpecial 
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Joined: Apr 03 2016 Location: PBC, FL Status: Offline Points: 124 |
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 Posted: Nov 22 2022 at 8:04pm |
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So, per Steve Norton who has the documents from the Marines, they acquired (in six month increments):
Second half of 1942: 9,995 First half of 1943: 57,927 Second half of 1943: 83,780 First half of 1944: 107,946 Second half of 1944: 19,112 First half of 1945: 54,990 Total war acquired: 333,760
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-Neil
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Matt_X
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Joined: Nov 10 2020 Location: Phila, Penn Status: Offline Points: 1047 |
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Posted: Nov 22 2022 at 9:20pm |
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Neil, Thank you! Can you help us square away that inventory with 3,505 carbines on Steve's website? June 1942 doesn't make sense with what is known about carbine production. - Matt
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RedSpecial
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Posted: Nov 22 2022 at 9:52pm |
I looked quickly at the website to find what you are referencing so I could inquire but I’m not seeing it. Is that on the carbine page of the USMCweaponry site?
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-Neil
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Matt_X
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Posted: Nov 22 2022 at 10:29pm |
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Neil, It's on the Garand page https://usmcweaponry.com/wwii-korean-era/ <snip> "Almost halfway down the webpage are some USMC weapons inventories from
Guadacanal and there are no carbines on any of them. The last image in
that row is total inventory of the Marine Corp. There are 3,505
carbines .... The
caption states the inventory is from the end of the 1942 fiscal year." The end of fiscal
year 1942 for the US government was June 30, 1942. The document's last column is a projection
for Dec 1943. My guess was that is a June 1943 inventory. But now that doesn't seem right either. edit. This direct link to the image may work Inventory end of Fiscal year 1942?
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thirtyround
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Posted: Nov 22 2022 at 10:58pm |
 Para Marines, New Caladonia 1943, no info on month |
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thirtyround
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Posted: Nov 22 2022 at 11:03pm |
 Demolition men of the 3d Raider Battalion landed on Torokina Island on 3 November, but found that supporting arms had already killed or driven off all Japanese. Department of Defense Photo (USMC) 63165 M1 Carbines: Guy neeling with balled head and first row standing , man on the right |
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Matt_X
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Posted: Nov 22 2022 at 11:05pm |
I think that late 1942 is good estimate for the photos based on the fact it says boots go to New River for rifle training. Marine Corps Ground Training in WW2 states New River and Camp Elliot were used for rifle training from August through December of 1942. I can't recall if it says when this was discontinued. FWIW my dad wrote Parris Island as place for rifle training in his scorebook which begins 6/8/1943.
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thirtyround
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Posted: Nov 22 2022 at 11:28pm |
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Marines after Guadalcanal moved to Australia for recoup and training : From the 15 February 1943 until 27 March 1943 they continued with the same theme, plus the addition of small unit tactics. Particular emphasis was placed on physical conditioning for all personnel. In April 1943, landing exercises were undertaken by the Fifth Marines and the Seventh Marines in Port Phillip Bay.
As part of the re-equipment, their 1903 Springfields were replaced by the M-1 rifle. During April, May and June 1943, range qualifications were carried out using their new M-1 rifles at Williamstown Rifle Range. *(My comment - Had to include M1 Carbines, best guess - not stated in references as there was no record, but other info is supporting this possibility) REFERENCES -www.ozatwar.com/usmc/1stmarinedivision.htm -Special Action Report - Cape Gloucester Operation - First Marine Division 1943 1944 -155th Station Hospital Unit History -Marine Corps Historical Reference Pamphlet - A Brief History of the 11th Marines -World War II Gyrene - Dedicated to the U.S. Marine 1941-1945 |
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David Albert
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Posted: Nov 23 2022 at 8:00pm |
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I'm not sure when the first U.S. Marine combat usage of the M1 Carbine occurred. However, I looked at my Carbine book and manual reference list, and the first USMC manual I have in my collection that includes the Carbine is dated 1 July 1942. Here is a screenshot of my entry.
 David Albert dalbert@sturmgewehr.com |
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NRA Life Member
Past Pres., The American Thompson Association Amer. Society of Arms Collectors OGCA/TCA/Carbine Club/GCA/IAA SAR Writer Author - The Many Firearm Designs of Eugene Reising Eagle Scout |
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Matt_X
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Posted: Nov 27 2022 at 1:27pm |
According to the Marines Corps, Choiseul. "Two diversionary amphibious landings were made the night of 27-28
October: the 2d Marine Parachute Battalion landed on Choiseul; and New
Zealand’s 8th Brigade, together with Navy Seabees (U.S. Naval
Construction Battalions), made an unopposed landing on the Treasury
Islands on 27 October. " credited to JO1 Lorraine Ramsdell, USN So I think we can state carbines and their ammunition etc, were aquired sufficiently before October in order for these Paramarines to have recieved and trained with them enough to be combat ready. However it is likely this was after MCO 189 (July 19, '43) dropped Carbine Qualification for record. |
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Matt_X
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Posted: Nov 27 2022 at 2:04pm |
NPS on-line has a digitized USMC history of the Raiders. In alignment with your research the author states: "The
2d Raider Battalion was one of the first Marine units to receive the
semiautomatic M1 Garand .30-caliber rifle as standard issue; most units,
including the 1st Raiders, started the Guadalcanal campaign with the old
bolt-action Springfield M1903." I looked through, but did not find any specific reference to when they first obtained M1 carbines. There was a short time to recooperate between operations in Sept 1943. Maybe that's when the Raiders got thair carbines? Some more images with carbines on this US Navy Bouganville page. (on the webpage, click on the image to bring up the documentation page and links to higher res/larger scans) (National Archives 80-G-56405)  The next one is not US Marines, but shows Australian Coast Watchers equiped or re-equiped with carbines late November '43. The New Zealand natives are apparently armed with Lee Enfields. (National Archives, USMC 69275) |
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Matt_X
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Posted: May 25 2025 at 9:20pm |
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The author of USMCWeaponry.com has added significant material to his M1 Carbine webpage that helps answer this question.
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W5USMC
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Posted: May 25 2025 at 10:49pm |
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The author of that site Tim Plowman did add considerable information, some of which is very informative. He needs to refigure his Carbine Manufacturer Production numbers, Saginaw and Irwin Pedersen in particular.
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Wayne
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Matt_X
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Posted: Oct 16 2025 at 7:33pm |
I was revisiting this page. Does Neil (Red Special) or anyone else have a way to get in touch with Mr Powman? Perhaps he'ld be open to the information required to correct that tabulation, etc? Also stumbled across this page at https://www.reddit.com/r/ww2/comments/16qcxrk/did_the_usmc_really_adopt_the_m1_carbine_in/ where the 1st respondent list numbers of carbines which seem to be based on the TO&E during WW2. I don't want to repost that information here until someone more familiar with the organizational history looks it and can pick out what seems to be fact from what may be paper plans. |
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painter777
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Posted: Oct 17 2025 at 4:36pm |
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CCNL 341 includes a priority list sent to the Chief of Ordnance for issuance of M1A1 Carbines.
The list is dated 12 Nov 42.So you may find it helpful. On a side note, thou not Marines, The 506 PIR are 2nd on that list and Jumped on Nadzab/Markum Valley Sep 5th 1943.Having arrived in New Zealand in Dec 1942. Even with Pacific shipping being a huge challenge during this early war period, 10 months seems like plenty of time to get them there in time for the Nadzab operation (assuming the CoO accepted the recommendation). Video exists of the'Sand table' showing many M1 / M1A1 Carbines were there. This was the stepping stone to the Pacific Island Campaign laid out under General MacArthur. Ch-P777
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Matt_X wrote: