Inland M2 Carbine Serial Number XD43

I saw this post in one of the groups I follow on Facebook around October 2014. I posted it on my own website, but thought it should also be posted here, for historical purposes, and for possible further comment. I've included most of the comments below the photo that were included on FB, and have removed the names associated to them. This M2 should be in a museum. My only hope at this point is that ATF does not destroy it, so that maybe someone can see it again in the future. From what I can tell, the barreled receiver was given to ATF, and the rest of it was kept by the owner. It was supposedly unfired because it had an incomplete chamber...



These are the FB comments...Again, not my own...

...this piece of History was destroyed..for the same reason as the M2 below, a local gunshop thought he could help the owner of this rare bird, by calling the ATF to get it taxed...he was wrong.. they agreed to let me remove the receiver, and replace it with one marked M1.. it wasnt on the M2 list, so,,,they turned a rare rifle, that was unfired, and new from the bag...into a 700.00 shooter..do to lack of knowing what they had, and trusting the ATF... how do i know it was unfired? it was had a short chamber, and wouldnt feed a live round.

the owner of this said his granddad worked at Inland, says he has a number of other rare bits, a cut away as well as new stocks, ect..

- I'll never understand why people think that the government is going to help... lol.
by the way,,, the ATF had someone, stand and watch me remove it, and hand it back to the owner, and told me not to log it in my book, i had him sign a letter to that fact, they take this pretty serious

- any know how freaking rare this rifle was?? XD?? they were the first carbines made,

-I saw an XD once. It was at a Carbine Club display that included Audie Murphy ' s Carbine and a 24" barreled one that went to the CEO of one of the plants as a presentation piece.

- the owner of this said his granddad worked at Inland, says he has a number of other rare bits, a cut away as well as new stocks, ect..

- For the fact that it could not chamber a round the argument could be made that it was not a firearm, but a display item or training dummy....

- Also, why does the ATF seem to hate M1 carbines so much???

- When in doubt....don't call the government. It's not your friend.

- I dont make the rules, i just like to know them, like i said, i like sleeping in my own bed at night

- Too bad he isn't rich enough to take the BATFE to court over this nonsense.

- he would have lost... it was marked M2...and the law is what it is...now...if someone had removed the 2 and stamped 1? hmmm, that may be another story

- The law doesn't say "once a mg, always an mg". That's just a rule the BATFE came up with.the ATF is controled by the commander and Chief, since when does any rule they make, feel good or good for us?

- Changing the subject slightly from government treachery to Carbine history, when did the M2 go into production?

- I think the answer is 1945

- Standardized Sept 1944

(End of FB comments)

David Albert
dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

New2brass wrote: If it is marked M2 how could it be one of the first ones made? According to War Baby 345, 359,360 the X-Series were Inland Experimental and Presentations. There is one XD in the Smithsonian.  Many XD went to Inland personal. CCNLs 187, 267 have spotters reports   As to the M2 marked being a machine gun, the following are what I remember on the topic as I remember them discussed. Not my opinion, nor legal advice, no I did not even stay in a Holiday Inn last night.    the ATF classifies certain components and having a certain number of pieces constitutes them to be a machine gun. Their count does not include the receiver. The parts in combination will function in either receiver.  There is zero  differences between a M1 and M2 receiver made at that time, A hand stamp had the option of being either.    why they have two separate classifications for one particular firearm? (I do not know if there are two classifications but find it interesting)    The ATF supposedly lost a ruling on this once. they will bankrupt an individual even if that was the case. They will go in knowing they will lose, what does it cost them? (I have no first hand knowledge of this, just what I have read on the topic)

I would assume this Inland started life as an M1, and was subsequently re-stamped as an M2, either at Inland, or even decades later in the civilian market, as unlikely as that sounds. As such, it is a machine gun. Once a machine gun, always a machine gun. We can argue whether this makes sense, or is legal, or whether it would stand up under challenge, but I can tell you that it is considered a machine gun, and that is unlikely to change.

The difference between an M1 and M2 Carbine receiver is the difference between a "1," or a "2." The M2 Carbine is unique in the NFA world, in that the series of M2 parts could be registered as a machine gun by themselves prior to May 19, 1986, and could be put in an M1 host gun. We also have M2's in the registry that have always been M2's, as well as some that were changed like this one, or were modified and re-marked later in life to make the weapon appear like a more "original" M2. Carbines were fairly inexpensive guns a couple of decades ago.

I do hope the receiver was not destroyed, and that maybe someday it could be further documented.

David Albert
dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

Even though the receiver is stamped M2, the presentation carbines were never built as fully automatic. That would be my discussion with ATF.

David Albert wrote: Thanks for the forum posting etiquette lecture.

"If records exist to document the culling of specific serial numbers from the lines prior to assembly into machine guns, that would be compelling evidence."

The serial number XD43 had no other purpose than to be a presentation carbine for an employee at Inland. There is documentation to that effect. A list of serial numbers and who they were presented to is in existence.

We could probably go back and forth about this indefinitely. I feel that the way this would turn out has more to do with the personality of the agent dealing with it and the way it is presented.

I was at the Bill Goodmans gun show in Dayton,Ohio today and a vendor there told me that Inland XD 86 marked M2 was auctioned off somewhere on the east coast just in the last few months. He said he went to 2k and the guy that bought it, was there with his wife who is an attorney. It was not offered as a Machine Gun. ??

Crazy stuff

David: Well aware of the potential consequences of possession of a M2 marked receiver without proper ATF papers. I was following this thread and happen to be talking to this class dealer at the show and he brought it up. He wanted it as a conversation piece after he cut it in 2.

PM Coming Chris