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Oil, Lubricating & Preserving, Original |
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Matt_X 
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Joined: Nov 10 2020 Location: Phila, Penn Status: Offline Points: 1047 |
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 Topic: Oil, Lubricating & Preserving, OriginalPosted: Dec 29 2020 at 10:31pm |
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In a post I can not find now (might have been at CMP or Milsurp) someone asked about the viscosity and other properties of the oil reference in FM23-7 and similar documents. So here is a partial answer, motivated by the aquisition of two candidates for 1940s to 1970s Oil, Lubricating, Preservative, Light.  The larger, 4 oz. can is clearly labelled Gunoil Formula. Unfortunately I wasn't been able to turn up any information about ALOX L-1165 M. However the seller did have a photo of the cardboard box it came in. That has the additional information contract number N52m-17099. For the smaller, 2 oz. can, the clue most helpful in my limited searches was the ordinance specification number. The evidence so far indicates this specification was coming into use in 1943 and may have been superceded in 1945. A late 1943 publication about preparing a towed scraper for export has several oils listed in a table of materials. (pages 22-23 of TB 5-1210-1 December 1943) The designations may be new as they are listed as "Tentative Spec." AXS-702 Oil, Lubricating, Preservative, Light Protection and lubrication of precision type instruments or equipment. Light oil type. Min., Viscosity at 100° F, 17 centistokes. Pour Point -40° F There was also listed a lighter oil, with significantly lower pour point. AXS-777 Oil, Lubricating, Preservative, Special Protection and lubrication of precision type instruments or equipment. Light oil type. Min. Viscosity at 100° F, 12 centistokes. Pour Point -70° F max Pour point is pretty much what it sounds like. Its a test for what temperature the oil is too cold to pour. For a sense of comparison, a conventional SAE 30 automobile engine oil has a pour point of -22° F, for 10W-30 its -33° F, and a 5W-20 around -44° F. At 100° F, the conventional 5W-20 oil viscosity is around 50 centiStokes, and 10W-30 is around 68 centistokes. (from Chevron's Havoline data sheet PCMO-70, May 2015) AXS-702 specification also showed up in the US Army Report of Operations, 20 Oct 1943 - 1 Aug 1944, Annex 2. Its listed here in the support supplies for M1 Rifle, M1 Carbine and a couple of other firearms.  One more point for discussion. The 2 oz can apparently was intended to be carried. It would be interesting to know if there were also small containers of the bore cleaner for use in the field.  Edited by Matt_X - Dec 31 2020 at 2:19pm |
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jackp1028
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Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Cloudcroft, NM Status: Offline Points: 1450 |
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Posted: Dec 29 2020 at 11:24pm |
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Specifications for the lubricants referenced in FM23-7 and TM9-1276 can be found in TM 9-850. A link to the PDF for this TM can be found in this article:
http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/Forum/lipstick-oiler-and-other-carbine-tools_topic3948_post28153.html?KW=lipstick#28153 |
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JackP
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Matt_X
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Joined: Nov 10 2020 Location: Phila, Penn Status: Offline Points: 1047 |
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Posted: Dec 31 2020 at 2:11pm |
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Thanks Jack. Looking at TM9-1276 January 1947 adds to the evidence that the Light Lubricating and Preservative Oil was still in stores, but was no longer being purchased. It pretty clearly states that it is superceded by the Special Lubricating and Preservative Oil, which can be used in arctic and other low temperature conditions. Another bit of evidence is a snip from This Week In The Iron Age, Published 1945 "Specification No: USA 2-120 (formerly AXS-777) or O.S. 1361, also superceded AXS-702 (Rev. 1)" I don't see it at all in the October 1951 version of TM-850. From the above and the little I have gathered about contract numbering, I'm going to suggest the 4 oz. bottle is WW2 era. |
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ncin1911
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Joined: Dec 13 2018 Location: Hoosier State Status: Offline Points: 435 |
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Posted: Jan 01 2021 at 9:09am |
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fwiw
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Matt_X
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Posted: Jan 05 2021 at 1:38pm |
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Following up on the ebay links above. The first one was a 2 oz can of PS (Special Light L & P Oil), made to USA 2-120 The seller showed it came in a cardboard carton with the date July 3, 1945 This is further evidence the specification codes changed in the 1944-to 45 time frame. As far as providing some chronology methods of the contract numbers, the following two pages were helpful, even though focused on clothing. If anyone has more info or can recommend sources of info about contract systems or spec systems that would be great. |
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Matt_X
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Posted: Mar 06 2021 at 2:52pm |
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Alox Corp of NYC was assigned a patent by James E.Shields of Niagra Falls NY. Patent application submitted by Alox on March 5, 1943. It begins with the properties and characteristics desired for the gun oil. |
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Matt_X
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Posted: Mar 29 2021 at 3:23pm |
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Finally got a copy of the FM 23-7 version 1944 April 23 (also marked TM-117) U.S. Carbine Caliber .30 M1 and M1A1 With respect to lubrication there are several changes from the May 1942 version: First, there is a list of the cleaners, lubes, and rust preventatives authorized. Second, two more lubricating and preservative oil have been added, Medium, and Special; along with Rifle Grease. Third, there is a description of the properties and uses for each of these items. Highlights include: Light preservative lubricating oil - Its short term rust preventative properties come from both the film formed and the inhibitors. "It therefore will protect the metal surface from rust even though no appreciable film of oil is present..." However for it to work as a lubricant on the moving parts "it is necessary to maintain a thin film of oil." Special preservative lubricating oil - Is for low temperatures. It does all the same as the Light Oil. It is noted that Special Oil will replace Light Oil when stocks of the latter are depleted. Medium preservative lubricating oil - Compared to the light oils it has "superior" resistance to salt-water atmospheres. It forms a relatively heavy film. It should be used prior to landings or other instances where there will be exposure to salt-water in the air. Otherwise the light oils should be used.Rifle Grease - Has excellent resistance to water but "used sparingly to avoid the collection of dust and sand and then only.." when "exposure to rain or sea water may cause the bolt to fail open." Specific locations for where to use the grease are provided. Edited by Matt_X - Apr 02 2021 at 5:30pm |
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painter777
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Posted: Mar 30 2021 at 8:16pm |
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@ Matt_X,
You shared some views on different oils, WD40 in the Topic: Cleaning Mags. Could this be the one your looking for ? If not..... Just pretend I never posted this. Ch-P777
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Living Free because of those that serve.....
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Matt_X
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Posted: Mar 31 2021 at 10:07pm |
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I'm pretty sure now it was milsurps or CMP but regardless it was old enough that even if I find it, might be too old to add a new post. Lets just keep this going here. Anyone who has something to add about the oils and greases the military was using should feel free to add it here. We could add the bore cleaner too, although to my surprise apparently it is (or was) an aqueous solution. Since we now know medium preservative and lubricating oil was specified for saltwater environments, lets add the specs from TB 5-1210 (Dec 1943). AXS-674 Oil, Lubricating, Preservative, Medium Internal protection of engines, reduction gears, pumps, etc. SAE 30 oil type. Saybolt Viscosity at 210° F, 60-70. [ at 100° F the viscosity is around 97 centistokes] Max Pour Point 20° F AXS-702 Oil, Lubricating, Preservative, Light Protection and lubrication of precision type instruments or equipment. Light oil type. Min., Viscosity at 100° F, 17 centistokes. Pour Point -40° F AXS-777 Oil, Lubricating, Preservative, Special Protection and lubrication of precision type instruments or equipment. Light oil type. Min. Viscosity at 100° F, 12 centistokes. Pour Point -70° F max Note: To compare the viscosity of the medium to the lighter gun oils we can use some more recent SAE specs. In 1967 SAE 30 oil was required to have viscosity at 210° F between 58 and 70 SUS, or 9.4 to 12.9 centiStoke. That matches up well with the medium oil viscosity from the TM of 60-70 SUS. Knowing that, I looked at a recent Brad Penn SAE 30 engine oil viscosity graph. The graph shows the oil's viscosity at 100° F to be approximately 97 centiStokes. Edited by Matt_X - Apr 02 2021 at 5:43pm |
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Matt_X
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Posted: Feb 08 2026 at 11:27am |
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Change No. 1 for the FM 23-5 contributes to the time line for the Preservative Lubricating Oils. As of March 21, 1944 the Special and the Medium Lubricating Oils were added to the list of cleaning and lubricating materials for the M1 rifle. Special Oil was to be used for cold temperatures; and when stocks of Light Oil were depleted, Special Oil would be used in its place. Aircraft Instrument and Machine Gun oil was removed from the list. The Medium Preservative and Lubricating oil was to be used where small arms where the Rifle (M1) was subject to salt water atmosphere. Light PL is, but Special Oil is not, listed in Dec 31, 1943 SNL B-28 for the Carbine, or the February SNL B-4 for the M1917 Rifle. This all supports March 1944 for the begining of the change over to the new oils. In fact there is a box of 2 oz. Light Preservative Lubricating Oil dated March 1944 shown on Questmasters page 2 of Crates.
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David Albert
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Posted: Feb 15 2026 at 5:10pm |
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FWIW, here are some pics of a 2 ounce can of OIL, LUBRICATING, PRESERVATIVE, SPECIAL from my collection. I acquired this because it was made nearby in Cincinnati, I believe in 1944.
  David Albert dalbert@sturmgewehr.com |
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Past Pres., The American Thompson Association Amer. Society of Arms Collectors OGCA/TCA/Carbine Club/GCA/IAA SAR Writer Author - The Many Firearm Designs of Eugene Reising Eagle Scout |
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New2brass
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Dan Pinto, How Can I help Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CCC Status: Offline Points: 5527 |
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Posted: Feb 16 2026 at 7:53am |
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Here we have two small cans of oil Standard Oil of NJ. P.O. No. (28-024) 44-40702.1 ORD Dept AXS 702 (Rev 1) The American Products P.O. No. (28-024) 44-40702 Spec USA 2-120 Initially I was thinking post WW2 as the 44-#### is typical for later contracts and the two numbers proceeding the dash may not have be a date. Normally with what I see with carbine parts is the full contract number on the package. Lets look at the contracts Standard Oil of NJ. Bayonne* Lubricating Oil 28-024 ORD 348 Contract was awarded 11-43 and completed 3-44 American Products Cincinnati Lubricating Oil 28-024 ORD 347 Contract was awarded 11-43 and completed 6-44 *Standard oil was a huge oil company with many locations. Sometimes a contract and location can differ with one being an office and other the plant. Bayway and Bayonne are next to each other, Sometimes a contract could be for multiple items. The 44- may be a way of breaking down the items. If the 44 was a date I would expect from when the contract was made not delivered. However it may be a revision. When you compare the 2 small cans you can see the specs listed are different. Matt addresses this above. Note the 44-40702.1 on the can that is revision 1 Hypothetically some of the cans could have been delivered before the completion date. The date of delivery may have been stamped on the case which the oil cans were in, so keep an eye out for that. Bray U B had several listings for Lubricating Oil with the earliest listed contract of 2-43 latest 4-45 there is a 28 024 ORD333 which was 11-43 completed 6-44 Absent a contract number it would be speculation on which the can falls into.
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Matt_X
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Posted: Feb 16 2026 at 12:30pm |
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The seller of the gun oil from Bray did have a photo of the cardboard box it came in.
No date but has the contract number N52m-17099. At the time I also collected photos showing other manufactures. 4 oz. can with spout of Light Lubricating Preservative Oil Gun Oil Formula L 1165 M  YD STK. NO. 4x7-55_ITEM 2 DIR. ITEM NO. NCC-14142-D CONTRACT NO. N130s-20018 U.S. NAVY REQN. YD 8746-45 CLASS 2 ITEM MANUFACTURED BY VISCOSITY OIL CO. CHICAGO 32, ILLINOIS ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Very unusual glass container, it has both the AXS and the US spec for Special Preservative Lubricating oil. So probably 1945 or later. Maybe repackaged or a commercial rather than government sale?  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2 oz. cans similar to David Albert's. In fact maybe the same order. Special Preservative Lubricating Oil Spec. U.S.A. 2-120  July 3 1945 On the can P.O. (28-02____ 44-40702 THE AMERICAN PRODUCTS CO. CINCINATTI OHIO USA |
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New2brass
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Dan Pinto, How Can I help Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CCC Status: Offline Points: 5527 |
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Posted: Feb 20 2026 at 2:46pm |
That is a Navy contract awarded 6-43 and last delivery 12-43 Viscosity is a Navy contract. There is very little listed contracts for them, one Navy and 3 Army. Army: Chemicals, (2x) rust preventative Navy: Rust preventative Suspect contract was under the reporting requirements The glass, the stock number does not look correct for ordnance. Navy may not have used the same stock numbers. The Nave stuff there is a blackout on to this day. Very difficult to find much info or manuals for the scopes. Later the Army and Navy started combining, but take a look at the TM and FM where there is two different nomenclatures for the manuals. American products only shows one contract for lubricating oil. Absent the contract it is hard to say. They could have had a small contract below the reporting amount. Or possibly the date was not for delivery. I suspect first scenario. |
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Matt_X
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Posted: Feb 22 2026 at 4:08pm |
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I didn't realize the Navy contracts were more difficult to decipher and look up. Zooming in on two of Davis's 1944 shipboard photos, there looks to be a glass bottle with a black metal cap. There is also a cap on the deck from from a metal can. I think the glass bottle is oil and the metal cap is from rifle bore cleaner. Having a metal cap makes it different from the bottle pictured above but rises the possibility that it was a military contract item. This photo has a view of the whole bottle. At least I think its a bottle.
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New2brass
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Dan Pinto, How Can I help Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CCC Status: Offline Points: 5527 |
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Posted: Feb 23 2026 at 9:33am |
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Navy stuff listed in contracts are different as far as contract number system, but their is a column that has a N or A to make it clear who gave the contract. It is finding Navy manuals, documents etc. The Army declassified info and one could request information. The Navy on the other hand seems to not declassify much. The contracts were self evident on the tags, and conformable From working on the IR pages we have only found information that was a few pages included in the Army TM fro the IR equipment, Post war information by the National Defense Research Committee (NDRC) and the inventors/researchers publishing findings, and Navy radio bulletins that post the declassified information for the seaman's general knowledge. These refer them to specific publications that seem to be unobtainable to this day. Thankfully we have some smart guys that understand how they work and exchange what they have learned. So the stock number on the small bottle may be a Navy number, but I have not seen an equivalent to the SNLs for Navy items. The Marines are a part of the Navy, but a distinct military branch with their own command structure. This information in the form of after action reports has been found helpful. I wonder if they have anything on such things and did they use the Navy number systems?
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David Albert
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Posted: Feb 23 2026 at 7:25pm |
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This probably has good potential for further study
I own, or have owned literally thousands of military weapons manuals over the years. I have a few that are specific to the Marine Corps. I can only think of two that are Navy specific off the top of my head, and both are Navy versions of the same M1 Thompson manual published by the War Department during WWII. The War Department may be the distinction here, as I have certainly had War Department manuals with Navy stamps in them. In a 1959 Marine Corps Stock list for the MC-58 Rifle, National Stock Numbers are referenced, but I know this was changed over to NSN's sometime following WWII. Incidentally, the complete (and rare) Marine MC-58 Stock List is published within my book, "The Many Firearm Designs of Eugene Reising." David Albert dalbert@sturmgewehr.com |
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NRA Life Member
Past Pres., The American Thompson Association Amer. Society of Arms Collectors OGCA/TCA/Carbine Club/GCA/IAA SAR Writer Author - The Many Firearm Designs of Eugene Reising Eagle Scout |
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Matt_X wrote: