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WTB Carbine Bolt Tools / Headspace Gauges

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Eight_Ring View Drop Down
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    Posted: Apr 12 2020 at 10:34pm
Let me know what you've got and what you'd want for them.

Repro is fine on the bolt tool.

I'd prefer to pay via discrete Paypal, but I'm open to other alternatives.

Thank you.

--David
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 12 2020 at 11:02pm
Currently cheapest bolt tool listed as buy now........
Use single pawl to take bolt apart.
Use Split/forked pawl to put back together.


You don't need ALL  the head space gages.
Living Free because of those that serve.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eight_Ring Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 12 2020 at 11:14pm
One of those suckers just went for $15 over the weekend--1 bid and no reserve (lol).

I probably could get by with a just a NO-GO, agreed--but it is nice to have the entire spectrum covered.

Thanks for the link.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 12 2020 at 11:44pm
Originally posted by Eight_Ring Eight_Ring wrote:

I probably could get by with a just a NO-GO, agreed--but it is nice to have the entire spectrum covered.

You could actually get by with just a Field Gauge, although I have all 3, I rarely if ever use the Go gauge, the Field gauge is the one I carry with me to shows/auctions to check carbines. Whatever you end up getting I suggest that you go with Forster gauges over the Clymer gauges. You can use the Forster gauges with the bolt assembled but the bolt has to be disassembled to use the Clymer gauges.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 13 2020 at 8:19am
If you reload, or know someone who does, you can build your own gauge from a sized case of known length. You can determine exact head-space by shimming. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eight_Ring Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 13 2020 at 10:14am
Originally posted by W5USMC W5USMC wrote:

Originally posted by Eight_Ring Eight_Ring wrote:

I probably could get by with a just a NO-GO, agreed--but it is nice to have the entire spectrum covered.


You could actually get by with just a Field Gauge, although I have all 3, I rarely if ever use the Go gauge, the Field gauge is the one I carry with me to shows/auctions to check carbines. Whatever you end up getting I suggest that you go with Forster gauges over the Clymer gauges. You can use the Forster gauges with the bolt assembled but the bolt has to be disassembled to use the Clymer gauges.


Thanks for the recc on the Foster gauges.

I appreciate it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eight_Ring Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 13 2020 at 10:18am
Originally posted by floydthecat floydthecat wrote:

If you reload, or know someone who does, you can build your own gauge from a sized case of known length. You can determine exact head-space by shimming. 


Interesting. Plenty of ways to skin a cat.

I do reload for the Garand, but not for the M1--though I am seriously thinking about it. Being in close proximity to this carbine has me wanting one (lol).

Per my particular sensibilities, I am thinking about building a nice no-nonsense shooter.

I do have 25 or 30 pieces of Aguila range-pickup, and a way to trim them.

That might just work in a pinch.

Thanks for the input.

Also-- a fellow just reached out from the CMP boards offering a bolt tool for $25 shipped. I'd call that a go.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 13 2020 at 11:33am
[QUOTEBeing in close proximity to this carbine has me wanting one (lol).

Per my particular sensibilities, I am thinking about building a nice no-nonsense shooter.[/QUOTE]

Welcome to the group.....you have just been hooked. Enjoy the journey!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David Milisock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 13 2020 at 4:15pm
In my experience most available ammo for the 30 Carbine is lack luster,  military surplus has not impressed me. Some factory ammo is reasonable cost wise but lacking accuracy, some is not awful but does not bring out the best in the rifle.  

I have not tried Hornady Critical Defence because it's expensive.  My reloads shoot really well at a much more reasonable cost. Accuracy, function and velocity is at the top of 30 Carbine performance.

Just my opinion but the 30 Carbine is an extremely effective but a minimalist design. Good quality control on peak performance ammo makes the M1 Carbine shine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eight_Ring Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 13 2020 at 5:55pm
Originally posted by David Milisock David Milisock wrote:

In my experience most available ammo for the 30 Carbine is lack luster,  military surplus has not impressed me. Some factory ammo is reasonable cost wise but lacking accuracy, some is not awful but does not bring out the best in the rifle.  

I have not tried Hornady Critical Defence because it's expensive.  My reloads shoot really well at a much more reasonable cost. Accuracy, function and velocity is at the top of 30 Carbine performance.

Just my opinion but the 30 Carbine is an extremely effective but a minimalist design. Good quality control on peak performance ammo makes the M1 Carbine shine.


What bullets do you load--and where is your sweet spot inre: velocity/accuracy?

The Carbine's general lack of long-rang accuracy is what had caused me (mistakenly) to hold it in general low regard--but the more I handled the rifle and visualized its uses the more sense it made to me. In part of my mind (and I do admittedly have a very utilitarian mind) I had wanted to get this carbine back online so the old-timer had something to protect himself and his home with in an increasingly uncertain world (and maybe that line of reasoning seems ridiculous to collectors--maybe so). Quite apart from its aesthetic and historical charm and its collectability (which are massive assets), the .30 cartridge makes a lot of sense in the role of home defense, especially for a senior citizen, male or female. It is so light--and modern defense loads take it into another class altogether.

I saw the Lehigh Defense video, and was very impressed that someone was still thinking outside the box and pushing the existing ballistic envelope on the .30 Carbine cartridge (but that is the ballistic nerd in me coming out--I understand if such facets don't interest many of you).

Loaded Ammunition:
https://www.lehighdefense.com/index.php?_route_=30-carbine-85gr-xtreme-cavitator-ammunition

Bullets (See load data link under picture):
https://www.lehighdefense.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=58

Anyway--this has all been an enjoyable and completely unexpected detour for a Garand and AR15 guy.

All the best.

   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David Milisock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 13 2020 at 8:39pm
I developed my load in responce to the reported problems with cold weather performance. Mostly these seemed to be from poor marksmanship, weak recoil springs, damaged magazines and a temperature sensitive ammunition which according to what I can gather may have had a reduction of 600 feet per second in the cold. As best I could determine velocities in early development were taken at 50 feet. Mine were taken at 10 feet from the muzzle.

These are loads that work in my rifles, I make no claim that they are suitable for you Carbines,  check with reloading manuals and use all safety procedures.

My two rifles have complete spring rebuilds and tested magazines.

REDUCE starting loads 15%

My loads are available in the Hodgon manual except I use magnum small rifle primers.

15 grain of Lil Gun, 110 grain Hornady round nose soft point and a small magnum rifle powder. Measured velocity at 2050 feet per second at 10 feet.

Reduce powder and check for pressure when changing projectiles.

I use magnum primers due to spherical powder can need a little more heat to ignite. 



Edited by David Milisock - Apr 14 2020 at 8:58am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonFlynn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 14 2020 at 12:14am
Originally posted by Eight_Ring Eight_Ring wrote:


The Carbine's general lack of long-rang accuracy is what had caused me (mistakenly) to hold it in general low regard--but the more I handled the rifle and visualized its uses the more sense it made to me. In part of my mind (and I do admittedly have a very utilitarian mind) I had wanted to get this carbine back online so the old-timer had something to protect himself and his home with in an increasingly uncertain world (and maybe that line of reasoning seems ridiculous to collectors--maybe so). Quite apart from its aesthetic and historical charm and its collectability (which are massive assets), the .30 cartridge makes a lot of sense in the role of home defense, especially for a senior citizen, male or female. It is so light--and modern defense loads take it into another class altogether.
   


I've owned both M-1 Carbines and AR-15's for decades. 200 yards and under I feel comfortable using either for self defense. Over 200 yards the AR is the better platform because the 5.56 round used is more powerful.

Modern AR's also benefit from being easier to mount optics and having a better designed magazine (the weakest point on a M-1 Carbine from a design standpoint IMO)      
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 14 2020 at 7:16am
I think that if the 9mm Luger round had been in wide spread use at the time like it was in Europe, the carbine might have been chambered in that round like it was in German submachine guns. Of course, the 7.62 x 33 is a more potent round, but a pistol round might have been considered in a gun designed to replace a pistol.

I have one of the few chambered in 9 x 19. Ammo is everywhere, half-or-less the cost of 7.62 x 33 and just as deadly in the role of a home defense weapon. I love the GI carbine for what it is and have some of those too, but the 9 is just as fun to shoot. I can’t see much past 50-yards anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David Milisock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 14 2020 at 9:42am
Originally posted by floydthecat floydthecat wrote:

I think that if the 9mm Luger round had been in wide spread use at the time like it was in Europe, the carbine might have been chambered in that round like it was in German submachine guns. Of course, the 7.62 x 33 is a more potent round, but a pistol round might have been considered in a gun designed to replace a pistol.

I have one of the few chambered in 9 x 19. Ammo is everywhere, half-or-less the cost of 7.62 x 33 and just as deadly in the role of a home defense weapon. I love the GI carbine for what it is and have some of those too, but the 9 is just as fun to shoot. I can’t see much past 50-yards anyway.

 
If you search youtube for Paul Harrell videos he as well as others have done some interesting penetration/damage tests comparing the 5.56 and the 30 Carbine. 

In short, at short combat ranges the 30 Carbine with round nose soft points and the 5.56 out of a 20" barrel and the M193 or M855 projectiles are nearly identical. Penetration tests using full metal jackets at close combat ranges have the 5.56, M193 and the 30 Carbine penetrating level 3A armor with 16" AR barrels, 20" AR barrels work with both M193 and M855.

I have SHOOTER CARBINES ONLY and I'm so greatful to those on this site as parts identification resources.  Facts are that due to wannabe collectors the costs of a military shooter or new  Carbines is 40% higher than it should be.  IMO if not for that cost factor I believe the 30 Carbine would be the dominant personal defence rifle in the country. 

I have a stock M1A1 and a Quality Hardware that has been modernized, I still use the iron sights it had a synthetic stock with a pistol grip, fore grip, laser and flashlight. Both have complete spring replacement kits and are 100% reliable, the M1A1 is my favorite. 250 yards is max effective range for reliabe hits with 100% effective chest hits at 200 yards with either rifle.

I have an AR15 A2, 1 in 7 twist, 20" barrel, with M193 and M855 with iron sights 400 yard chest hits are reliably done. Using 68 grain projectiles 500 yard hits are regularly achieved with iron sights. When scope mounted the 68 grain shoots about 1 1/2" at 300 yards.
David Milisock
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