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Win barrel on S'G'? |
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colreed 
Grunt 
Joined: Feb 15 2016 Location: Hockley, TX Status: Offline Points: 452 |
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 Topic: Win barrel on S'G'?Posted: Aug 15 2020 at 12:06pm |
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Recently acquired S'G' 1802657 with Win Type 1 barrel. The finish on the barrel and receiver match perfectly. The carbine has mixed parts so I figure it has been thru rebuild.
I could find no mention of Win barrels on S'G' in the literature (CCNLs, WB, etc). Can I assume the Win barrel was most likely a rebuild replacement? Many thanks.
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painter777
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Posted: Aug 16 2020 at 2:46pm |
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Col,
I can't find anything showing S'G' use of WRA barrels. I believe in the SG S'G' receiver review/survey (the one looking for Receiver markings) that one had a WRA barrel. I don't recall if it was a SG or S'G'. If you can find that post you may find the one reported with a W barrel. Not much help, just casting a line out, Ch-P777
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colreed
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Joined: Feb 15 2016 Location: Hockley, TX Status: Offline Points: 452 |
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Posted: Aug 16 2020 at 2:54pm |
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Painter777,
Thanks for that. Unfortunately, I have just discovered that the carbine has excessive headspace. The bolt closes easily on the Field guage. Therefore, I think I am SOL and need to put another barrel on it. Looks like the Win barrel on it now is toast.
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"Rescuing one animal may not change the world, but for THAT animal, THEIR world is changed forever"
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painter777
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Posted: Aug 16 2020 at 3:17pm |
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Col,
I just read on the CMP forum that someone said Sarco was offering Carbine barrels for ~$150. I don't know the maker or if this is of interest to you. CH-P777 Found it:
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GotSnlB28
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Posted: Aug 16 2020 at 6:28pm |
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You might want to try another bolt, I have had it be that before.
The Sarco barrels, they are definitely not Criterion from seeing the gas cylinder profile in the picture. Are they short chambered? It's not stated. My guess is if they were a well known quality brand they would be advertised as such. They would not leave money on the table selling them at $150. Most times I've ordered from Sarco I've been disappointed. Lesson learned. |
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floydthecat
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Posted: Aug 17 2020 at 6:19am |
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If one is looking to improve head space, I would not go anywhere near that barrel. My thoughts are that IJ/Plainfield/Universal (one company in their latter years) chambered their barrels to fit their commercial bolts without regard to any specific bolt. I think they chambered the barrels, screwed them in a receiver and stuck a bolt in it. The ones I have experience with left the factory long on head space. Hunting-n-pecking for a long GI bolt to tighten it up is possible, if you have a box full of bolts. IJ bolts are longer than most GI bolts by .003-.004.
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New2brass
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Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4657 |
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Posted: Aug 17 2020 at 9:42am |
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this is one of those Sarco barrels without the gas block  Here is more on those barrels |
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colreed
Grunt
Joined: Feb 15 2016 Location: Hockley, TX Status: Offline Points: 452 |
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Posted: Aug 17 2020 at 9:52am |
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Thanks fellows,
I tried all my spare bolts with no improvement. Shopped for IJ bolt with no luck. I have a spare RO barrel that I might try on it. Still debating.......
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painter777
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Posted: Aug 17 2020 at 10:37am |
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Seems some said the Post War .U. Round bolt with the hole were a tad longer.
I hope it works out for you Col. CH-P777
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floydthecat
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Posted: Aug 17 2020 at 10:57am |
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I have also tried a couple of post-war .u. bolts, but never gained much ground.
I can say that while IJ 30-caliber bolts are scarce, IJ 9mm bolts are available. The 9mm bolts are dimensionally the same as 30-caliber bolts, just have the face opened to +-.395. They WILL function just fine in a 30-caliber action....I know. Early on, IJ might have produced some specific 9mm bolts without the ejector hole in the face, then figured out all they had to do was open the face of a 30. The 9mm bolts will have additional machining for a pinned ejector, but it won’t interfere with function. Just install 30-caliber ejection components and it all works. Just make sure the bolt you get is a later one with the ejection component hole machined. PM me and I will give you a couple of sources. If you are within 3-4 thousandths of head spacing with a GI bolt, the IJ bolt will pull it together. I might even loan you one to see.
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W5USMC
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Posted: Aug 17 2020 at 11:19am |
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I personally have had success with the Post War .U. bolts, two of my carbines will close with a Field gauge on their respective bolts, with a post war .U. inserted neither will close on a No-Go gauge.
Edited by W5USMC - Aug 17 2020 at 1:50pm |
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Wayne
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floydthecat
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Posted: Aug 17 2020 at 11:40am |
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I completely agree the post-war .u. bolts can be longer where it counts, but maybe not long enough in some cases. If one measures the exact head space in the action, he can determine how much is needed to pull it back into spec. Of course, all a field gauge indicates is that it's out-of-spec. It could actually be a 1.303 making it .001 long. That isn't much and I'd bet a .u. would pull that in. If a guy needs .003-.004, that might be a stretch for a .u.? I do have a SG T2 bolt about as long as an IJ bolt, but how many blasted bolts does one have to go thru to find one.
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painter777
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Posted: Aug 17 2020 at 12:14pm |
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Guess I've been lucky as I've never had a head space issue (Fingers now crossed after knocking on wood)
Can a loose bolt me measured ? How would you go about it ? Might make a nice 'How to' for those of us who don't know. Assuming it's possible to measure a loose bolt. This makes any sense? Ch-P777
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floydthecat
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Posted: Aug 17 2020 at 12:44pm |
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I have really tried Charlie, but it is tricky. We have a fellow forum member here that can better answer that question and he might chime-in when he sees this. I think if one has the right tools, he can. It’s not a matter of bolt length, but the relationship between the bolt-face and rear of the locking lugs. I can tell the differences by measuring head space in any particular barreled action, but not by trying to measure the bolt externally.
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painter777
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Posted: Aug 17 2020 at 1:28pm |
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"..... the relationship between the bolt-face and rear of the locking lugs"
Pretty much the thought I had in mind..... but IDK. I'll assume you mean our 'Numbers guy' JackP
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03manV
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Posted: Aug 17 2020 at 1:32pm |
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The difference in GI bolts is going to be so small it is not worth the effort-
unless you have 10 or 20 bolts "lying around". The 3 or 4 thousandths you gain, will only make you "feel better" if the field gage does not then close on it; in reality you will not have gained any significant improvement. JMHO.
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Don
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painter777
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Posted: Aug 17 2020 at 1:47pm |
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I was hoping we'd get some opinions.
Plenty of know how here
Col has always been a great member on the Carbine Forums. Thx All |
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floydthecat
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Posted: Aug 17 2020 at 1:49pm |
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There he is Charlie.😁 03 and I feel pretty much the same way concerning head space I think. If one wants to go to the time and expense to gain a couple thousandths, that is perfectly fine, but they will keep shooting past a field gauge and remain safe to fire. |
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colreed
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Posted: Aug 17 2020 at 5:05pm |
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Wow! I just got back in town and found all the comments you fellows offered. Thanks so much for the concern and help.
I don't have the tools to measure the chamber to see exactly how far off it is. And as to modifying a 9mm bolt, I suppose I could do the time and expense of opening one up, but that seems a bit much for the fix that would result. I think Floyd's first statement: "If one is looking to improve head space, I would not go anywhere near that barrel" probably sums up what my feeling is at this time. But I am not in a big hurry to do something just yet. Maybe I'll just keep looking for a longer bolt so see if it might bring it in some. If anyone has a known longer bolt to offer, I would certainly entertain a deal for it. PS: How does one identify a 'POST war .U. round bolt' as some of you suggest might work? Are they marked differently. I am not aware. Again, I appreciate all the comments and suggestions. Is great working with you all. Reed
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"Rescuing one animal may not change the world, but for THAT animal, THEIR world is changed forever"
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floydthecat
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Posted: Aug 17 2020 at 5:51pm |
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The post-war Underwood will be a T3 with the drain-hole centered on the body and marked .u.
As for the 9mm bolt, there would be no modification. It accepts all USGI components. The only difference is the bolt-face has been opened-up to accept the .391 9mm base. I have fired them in 30-calibers without incident and by default, they are 3-4 thousandths longer in the area that matters. You should be able to measure your actual head space by adding scotch tape shims to the base of your field gauge and measure the overall length. You may discover it’s not long by enough to worry about. Fairly cheap but good digital calipers can be had at Harbor Freight for about $10. 03 made a meaningful comment....you might be purchasing bolts that could only marginally improve the head space and still close on the gauge. You won’t know until you measure it and the carbine will be fine a little long anyway.
Edited by floydthecat - Aug 17 2020 at 6:26pm |
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floydthecat wrote: