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Smokpole 
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Joined: Oct 21 2019 Location: Madison ohio Status: Offline Points: 1057 |
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 Posted: Aug 10 2020 at 2:50pm |
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You can't move the front sight on a carbine. lateral movement/windage has to be done with the rear sight.
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OGCA Life member
NRA Life member Ashtabula Rod and Gun Life member |
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W5USMC
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Joined: Apr 29 2017 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 2958 |
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Posted: Aug 10 2020 at 3:11pm |
Don't think anyone stated that you can move the front sight on a carbine, just clarifying the intent of the "FORS" rule.
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Wayne
USMC Retired NRA Life Member |
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painter777
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Joined: Feb 18 2016 Location: Central MI Status: Offline Points: 1718 |
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Posted: Aug 10 2020 at 3:49pm |
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Being serial number 2,018,758 I'd expect it to have a Dogleg hammer, Type II safety, the rear sight having the knife slash chisel stake. Frt sights in this range had the Snake eyes ( . . ) type stakes on either side of the lead key. Most I've seen and own have 1 single gas nut stake in the 2 -3 o clock position. Would expect the large Serif P on the barrel.
It's possible the receiver was finished out of order, thus the Straight Hammer. The Crossed Cannons stamp is a repro. Besides the flame and cannon ball hanging in the air, the top inner cannon has a Coke bottle shape to it and is missing the 2 Trunions (sp?). Stan Pro CC Breech ends are more squared off at 90+. This one shows the ends rounded off. Also note there is no room between the cannons inside the inner circle just above the Buckle. In other words the crossings of the cannons sets way to far to the bottom of the inner circle. They should intersect more to the center of the inner circle. Compare to a original and its easily apparent. Ten, Should have went with his gut. The Rear sight is also a old Repro. The Sq S Flips in this range had a lighter, smoother finish and staked with a larger Diameter Circular stake. The Blued Pin should really stand out vs the lighter green/gray of the base/leaf. Charlie-P777 |
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Living Free because of those that serve.....
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tenOCEE
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Knows rear sights! Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: East Tenn Status: Offline Points: 1330 |
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Posted: Aug 10 2020 at 10:09pm |
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I did, Charlie.
Btw, I wouldn't rely on the pin nor spring. They get refinished and even changed. I never look farther than a rounded pin end. Plus we know the sight has been changed so you should assume it's not a correct period flip. It's just a square S and appears to be an LS Supply high quality flip. Those aren't bad ones, imo.
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My sig: Seen an IP or S'G'? Add it to my registry. We'll check consecutives.
https://grandrapids.wufoo.com/forms/zzlnt0519k86xs/ |
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tenOCEE
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Knows rear sights! Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: East Tenn Status: Offline Points: 1330 |
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Posted: Aug 10 2020 at 10:48pm |
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This is what I'd call a bad fake. That pin looks sheared off instead of round.   But, 'someone'  altered it to the point where it had me doing double, triple, forever takes. That pin is the same pin, btw. Don't believe it boys. Shes the same fake, but with a face lift. Sorry. Just wanted to know if anyone would catch it.    |
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My sig: Seen an IP or S'G'? Add it to my registry. We'll check consecutives.
https://grandrapids.wufoo.com/forms/zzlnt0519k86xs/ |
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painter777
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Joined: Feb 18 2016 Location: Central MI Status: Offline Points: 1718 |
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Posted: Aug 10 2020 at 11:16pm |
I didn't read your first reply close enough.... A shame really because this was offered up and purchased as a Original. I hope he gets the bugs worked out of it and it becomes a reliable shooter. I didn't notice if it was a Hi-wood or if any extras came with it. 4 feed jams in 22 attempts. OP Stated: "..... was feed-jammed and the bolt slipped up and out of the receiver in my left hand while I was holding the slide back with my right and trying to shake out the jammed 'live' cartridge. " You can- Pull that slide back and push the stop pin down. Locks the slide back/open. Wondering why a bolt would rotate up and out of it while holding the Slide back (?). Maybe pulled the rear Slide tab out of it's track ? Worn slide tab ? Worn out slide track ? Only guessing until we can see pics of that area. Funny how often a fresh Op slide spring, good magazine, thorough cleaning and lube will eliminate feeding and extracting issues. Later, Ch-P777
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painter777
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Posted: Aug 10 2020 at 11:19pm |
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The RR looks better with the top base edges rounded off.
Breaking the Law Breaking the Law !!!!! LMAO CH-P777
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Living Free because of those that serve.....
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tenOCEE
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Knows rear sights! Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: East Tenn Status: Offline Points: 1330 |
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Posted: Aug 10 2020 at 11:37pm |
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That's got to be disappointing, the bugs he's working out. I didn't see that report looking on my phone. Education has value no matter how you gain it, so look at the positives. The leaf milling on the RR is pretty easy to spot. I posed it so as to hide that in the pics. The pin rounding was too simple. Scary, really.
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My sig: Seen an IP or S'G'? Add it to my registry. We'll check consecutives.
https://grandrapids.wufoo.com/forms/zzlnt0519k86xs/ |
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bumppo
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Joined: Jul 12 2020 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 37 |
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Posted: Aug 11 2020 at 1:35pm |
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this is my best guess as to what's happening with this standard products carbine:
twice in less than thirty rounds the bolt's right lug jumps out of its pocket under the charging handle before the new round is chambered. the bolt and the operating rod become separated, with the new round lying tilted at angle across the mouth of the chamber. other times the round being fed into the chamber jams without the bolt and op-rod separating, so that after unjamming it and re-cocking, the gun can shoot another few rounds before it happens again.
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bumppo
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Posted: Aug 11 2020 at 1:55pm |
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the operating rod or slide must be jumping out of its groove in the receiver when it's passing by the disassembly notch above the trigger?
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painter777
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Posted: Aug 11 2020 at 2:45pm |
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Can you show a picture of the receiver's slide track/rail on the right?
Look for extreme wear on the Op slide's inner pad near the handle, Also look at the 2 inner pads to the rear of the slides box.
Look/feel for any burring inside the receiver where the LEFT bolt lug rides. Measure length of the Op slide spring. I'd replace the spring with a new one. |
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bumppo
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Posted: Aug 11 2020 at 3:45pm |
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the receiver's slide groove seems ok (but of course this is all quite new to me):
 the op-slide's inner pad near the charging handle:  the op slide's two inner pads in the box seem to be no more badly worn than this one. the left-side groove inside the receiver for the left lug of the bolt feels perfectly smooth and if I push and hold the hammer all the way back the bolt slides back and forth smoothly from end to end. however, without me holding the hammer all the way back, i.e. when it's back part way but pushed forward by the hammer spring (to where the sear stops it?) so that it's leaning back to a position only about 45 degrees above horizontal from about 30 degrees when it's pushed all the way back, the bolt meets alot of resistance as it reaches the hammer and from there it has to push its way much harder the rest of the distance back because the bottom of the bolt is rubbing hard against the top of the hammer with what seems like possibly an abnormal amount of steel-on-steel friction. could be something's wrong with the hammer, in the degree to which it tilts backward driven by the bolt against counterpressure from the hammer spring? please excuse me if I'm way off in understanding and explaining this problem let alone possible solutions. the op slide spring is almost exactly 10" long. (about 120 coils) |
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blackfish
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Joined: Mar 30 2016 Location: 999-0 Status: Offline Points: 289 |
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Posted: Aug 11 2020 at 3:55pm |
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I would also check barrel indexing (not just the receiver/barrel mark).
Judging from info OP posted, (1) that barrel is a replacement (originally proofed by NPM for one of its own carbines, and (2) whoever replaced it probably didn't know what the *(@!*$!# they were doing - check out that scuff from the barrel vise. Barrel misalignment wrt the receiver can definitely "encourage" slide dismount to say nothing of accelerated wear on both slide and barrel. |
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bumppo
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Posted: Aug 11 2020 at 4:20pm |
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I'm not familiar with another kind of barrel indexing besides the barrel-mark to receiver-mark alignment where they meet, but those marks meet properly:
 may I ask why you think this barrel might be originally a NPM? is it because of no 'P', only a punch mark for proof? that would mean the flaming bomb with "underwood 9-43" is a clear forgery? |
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bumppo
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Posted: Aug 11 2020 at 4:37pm |
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here are photos of the sheen on the bottom of the bolt and the top of the hammer are rubbing on each other:
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bumppo
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Posted: Aug 11 2020 at 4:57pm |
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or the problem might be the bolt over-rotating sometimes to where its left lug gets caught against a swerve in the bottom edge of the left side receiver rail or groove.
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jackp1028
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Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Cloudcroft, NM Status: Offline Points: 1276 |
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Posted: Aug 11 2020 at 5:58pm |
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@bumppo, check these dimensions. Excessive wear here is is what is most likely to cause the slide to disengage.
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JackP
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blackfish
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Posted: Aug 11 2020 at 7:16pm |
I think TM1276 gives the method for ensuring the planes of both receiver and barrel flats are parallel by placing a straight edge across each to ensure they don't diverge NPM's barrel proof when assembling a carbine was a single punch mark. Standard Products used a "P". Absent a "P" of the correct font, Standard Products never installed this barrel when its carbine was originally manufactured. Underwood's flaming bomb is just part of their "brand" and has no other meaning. It's as genuine as your barrel is (I've since found other Underwoods with more finely turned barrels - oh the bane of extrapolating from small samples) |
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bumppo
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Posted: Aug 11 2020 at 7:34pm |
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so NPM installed an underwood barrel on one of their own receivers, marked their proof of it with a punch mark, then later on, this barrel was removed from the NPM receiver and re-installed onto a Standard receiver? would we not see Standard's own proof mark on it also? I don't know what Standard's proof mark was, but I haven't found any marks on the barrel except the punch mark and the underwood 9-43 with flaming bomb. is it unusual that there are no marks at all on the flat underside of the barrel between the gas cylinder and the breech?
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W5USMC
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Posted: Aug 11 2020 at 7:46pm |
Yes. No telling who did it or when that barrel was put on that receiver.
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Wayne
USMC Retired NRA Life Member |
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Smokpole wrote: