The Carbine Collectors Club
Forum Home Forum Home > The Club > Newsworthy Items
  New Posts New Posts
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Unusual Markings on Parts

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
Lupus Dei View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Publius

Joined: Nov 09 2015
Location: CCC
Status: Offline
Points: 1375
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lupus Dei Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Unusual Markings on Parts
    Posted: Mar 01 2016 at 10:55am

March 2016

Download

 

UNUSUAL MARKINGS ON PARTS

 By Dan Pinto

Newsletter 356 provided an in-depth article on thevarious (Type 3) bayonet lug bands for the carbine,detailing differences in construction and markings. Among them were those manufactured by American Radiator Standard Corporation for Inland Div. Both the earlier individually-stamped S and I and the combined SI stamp can be found, but this is the first report of both stamps on the same band.

 
 ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

In 1992, Newsletter 189-5 reported a factory lowwood stock with an unusual marking in the sling well: S&C U

The grain and color of the stock did not appear to be walnut. The cartouche on the right side of the stock was the late Underwood type: GHD over UEF with a crossed cannons stamp in a rectangular box.

Newsletter 202-7 reported a non-potbelly walnut M2 stock. The sling well markings were an ordnance bomb and the letters S. & C. One would suspect that these markings indicate manufacture by Sprague & Carlton, but those stocks made for IBM are marked differently: SC-B (no &).

Below is a recent find of the S. & C. U marking. This low wood stock has the same late Underwood cartouche on the right side. Pictured below left is an example similar to that mentioned in CCNL 202-7. Lower right is a typical SC-B  shown for comparison

 

 
 
__________________________________________________________________________________________________
 

Hard to say what that mark is on the barrel. Looks like a C, but is it? This was found on an Underwood barrel that is an "import" carbine that bore the K. art marking of the Norwegian Coast Artillery.

 
__________________________________________________________________________________________________
 

The early Winchester front sights marked with an L of the Lyman Company have been widely reported. (Left-most front sight below). Another odd marking (or is it?) can be seen on the bottom of the right-most unmarked Winchester-type "thumbnail" front sight on an original WRA carbine. Is that an L or just an unusual forging marking?

 
__________________________________________________________________________________________________
 

Chris Albright’s IBM manufacturer update article in Newsletter 329 reported that fabricated front sights were marked PO B on the right side.

This particular sight

Has the markings on the inside of the left wing, suggesting that the "wing" was stamped before being formed.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________
 

Marking errors on receivers have been widely reported over the years, including reports of early Inlands with deeply stamped markings. This 4-digit receiver was stamped so deep that impressions from the number dies can be plainly seen. (The milled grooves on the rear sight dovetail are from a sight modification made by the postwar Bavarian Police. See Newsletter 354-3.)

 
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 
 
If you have similar marking please share your posts or comments below.
We are also looking for submissions for future articles.
 
 
-60
Louis Dey
Admin
www.uscarbinecal30.com/forums
Back to Top
gene of oregon View Drop Down
On Point
On Point
Avatar

Joined: Jan 23 2016
Location: silverton, or
Status: Offline
Points: 135
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gene of oregon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 09 2016 at 12:56am
In regards to the S. & C. sling well mark (lower left pic) which manufacture was it made for? I have an identical stamped m2 low-wood without a cartouche, has a small O.G in a box stamped below receiver lift side, non-potbelly. Would this be a rebuild replacement stock??
The flag does not fly because of the wind that blows it. The flag flies because each soldier's last breath blows by it!
Back to Top
m1a1fan View Drop Down
Hard Corps
Hard Corps
Avatar
Got Para?

Joined: Jan 01 2016
Location: Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 1198
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m1a1fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 09 2016 at 6:11am
Yes, OG is the mark for Ogden Arsenal.
Back to Top
gene of oregon View Drop Down
On Point
On Point
Avatar

Joined: Jan 23 2016
Location: silverton, or
Status: Offline
Points: 135
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gene of oregon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 09 2016 at 10:15am
I know the OG was for Ogden Arsenal, but was this stock originally designated for one of the manufactures or arsenal rebuilders only?? Or just M2 replacements in general??
The flag does not fly because of the wind that blows it. The flag flies because each soldier's last breath blows by it!
Back to Top
JOHN42768 View Drop Down
Recruit
Recruit
Avatar

Joined: Jan 01 2016
Location: Upstate, N.Y.
Status: Offline
Points: 6
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JOHN42768 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 09 2016 at 12:44pm
S&C stock marking I believe early Sprague and Carleton Co.
May the Souls of all those who served and protected our Freedoms Rest in Peace
Back to Top
New2brass View Drop Down
Hard Corps
Hard Corps
Avatar
Dan Pinto!

Joined: Nov 29 2015
Location: CT
Status: Online
Points: 1475
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 24 2016 at 4:59pm
Originally posted by gene of oregon gene of oregon wrote:

In regards to the S. & C. sling well mark (lower left pic) which manufacture was it made for? I have an identical stamped m2 low-wood without a cartouche, non-potbelly. Would this be a rebuild replacement stock??
 
That was the question posed in CCNL 202-7 and why this is posted here.
I do not think it has ever been confirmed or denied.
Can you post some pics?
Back to Top
hunterman View Drop Down
On Point
On Point
Avatar

Joined: Jan 01 2016
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 120
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hunterman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 24 2016 at 8:17pm
I no longer have this stock but I kept the photos. It was a birch type 4.
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
Back to Top
gene of oregon View Drop Down
On Point
On Point
Avatar

Joined: Jan 23 2016
Location: silverton, or
Status: Offline
Points: 135
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gene of oregon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 24 2016 at 10:01pm
That was the question posed in CCNL 202-7 and why this is posted here.

I do not think it has ever been confirmed or denied.

Can you post some pics?

Hope this worked. Gene


http://imgur.com/rWez5s2


Back to Top
gene of oregon View Drop Down
On Point
On Point
Avatar

Joined: Jan 23 2016
Location: silverton, or
Status: Offline
Points: 135
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gene of oregon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 24 2016 at 10:46pm
I'm comparing pic's of the lower left and the pic I just posted, it's the same pic.   I posted that pic back some time ago on CMP I believe.   Gene    
                  Mystery solved thanks Dan (New2brass)
       
The flag does not fly because of the wind that blows it. The flag flies because each soldier's last breath blows by it!
Back to Top
New2brass View Drop Down
Hard Corps
Hard Corps
Avatar
Dan Pinto!

Joined: Nov 29 2015
Location: CT
Status: Online
Points: 1475
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 25 2016 at 12:05am
So I cropped the pictures from end to end of sling well and pasted into one picture to try keeping relative size. Keep in mind that pictures taken at different angles can skew comparative pictures.
We know S.C. B Is Sprague and Carlton and were known to use birch
The S.&C. stocks were non pot belly M2 with some differences such as fonts. Made of walnut.
The S.&C. .U. were clearly for Underwood as several still have the late CC.
Now we have Huntermans   SC u. Notice how the fonts and sizes tie in?
top 2 S C notice possible serif on C first S inconclusive, second appears Serif on S
2 and 3 the U similar size and font
3 and 4 ??
remember the skew. Maybe we can arrange better angles of pictures.
 
 
 
Discussion....... 
 
 
Back to Top
New2brass View Drop Down
Hard Corps
Hard Corps
Avatar
Dan Pinto!

Joined: Nov 29 2015
Location: CT
Status: Online
Points: 1475
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2016 at 1:53pm
Anyone with a S&C stock I ask that you look under the butt plate and report numbers if found.
Back to Top
New2brass View Drop Down
Hard Corps
Hard Corps
Avatar
Dan Pinto!

Joined: Nov 29 2015
Location: CT
Status: Online
Points: 1475
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 05 2016 at 4:47pm
Here are some reported stocks from Sprague and Carlton with the numbers on the butt.
Please report any numbers found. or if no numbers found.
 
 
Back to Top
EWRich View Drop Down
Recruit
Recruit
Avatar

Joined: May 30 2016
Location: N GA
Status: Offline
Points: 14
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EWRich Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 05 2016 at 5:00pm
OK, I'm really glad you posted that pic.  I was assuming a written number, thus me thinking that the grunge may have obscured them.  But no doubt now that I look at this picture that my stock has no such stampings.
Back to Top
gene of oregon View Drop Down
On Point
On Point
Avatar

Joined: Jan 23 2016
Location: silverton, or
Status: Offline
Points: 135
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gene of oregon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 24 2016 at 10:35pm
If someone here would like my S & C stock and would pay the shipping I'd be happy to send it to you. I really have no use for it. Let me know, Gene
           Sending it to Newbrass per our PM's
The flag does not fly because of the wind that blows it. The flag flies because each soldier's last breath blows by it!
Back to Top
tenOCEE View Drop Down
Grunt
Grunt
Avatar
Knows rear sights!

Joined: Jan 01 2016
Location: East Tenn
Status: Offline
Points: 184
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tenOCEE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 25 2016 at 9:30am
One quick look yielded an SCB with very crisp 8 high and 2 low. It's been cut to low wood. Another has a 15 high but too obscured low to see anything. Cut to low wood.
Back to Top
M1Dude View Drop Down
Recruit
Recruit


Joined: Feb 03 2017
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 10
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M1Dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 12 2017 at 12:45pm
Hey Guy's,
                   Here is a rare marking stamped into the stock of my original 1-43 Inland.. to the left of the bolt, I have seen other markings close to this of a few other carbines.  Anyone ever see anything like this?

Rgds, Mike
Back to Top
jackp1028 View Drop Down
Grunt
Grunt
Avatar

Joined: Jan 01 2016
Location: Cloudcroft, NM
Status: Offline
Points: 289
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackp1028 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 25 2018 at 7:44pm
Here's another unusually marked stock. I bought it thinking it was a good value for an Overton Type 3, but when I received it I saw another mark. Why would someone stamp "OI" over "LW-B"? The guru's on the M1Carbineforum.com suggest this might have been an undocumented transfer. What do you think?



JackP
Back to Top
New2brass View Drop Down
Hard Corps
Hard Corps
Avatar
Dan Pinto!

Joined: Nov 29 2015
Location: CT
Status: Online
Points: 1475
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 25 2018 at 8:18pm
@mike, i missed your post.
Yes that mark has been observed and reported, thank you for posting.

@Jack,the question here is did Inland or Overton mark the slingwell?
Parts were to be marked so if there was an issue they knew which factory made it and to what prime contractor used it.
In the case of OI it is Overton to Inland.
We do see transfered stocks to Inland with just an "I" added to other marks.
So i would expect it to be LW-B and just an I, no O as overton had nothing to do with transfer.
So the question next is there crossed cannons on stock? If so whos crossed cannons.

EDIT
Notice the nice kitties above?
This is why we picked forum software that lets us store pictures.
Much information was lost when photobucket stopped linking photos. Imgr photo expire.
Please post from your aloted space.
Back to Top
jackp1028 View Drop Down
Grunt
Grunt
Avatar

Joined: Jan 01 2016
Location: Cloudcroft, NM
Status: Offline
Points: 289
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackp1028 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 25 2018 at 8:48pm
I don't have the stock anymore but it did have an Inland crossed cannon cartouche and an Augusta Arsenal rebuild mark. Also a circle-P on the grip. Here are the only other pictures I still have of it. All other pictures were on Photobucket which I can no longer access (meow!).





I considered that it might have been transferred between Overton and Lumb Woodworking directly rather than between prime contractors. Here's a link to the subject on the M1CarbineForum.com.

http://m1carbineforum.forumco.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6655
JackP
Back to Top
tenOCEE View Drop Down
Grunt
Grunt
Avatar
Knows rear sights!

Joined: Jan 01 2016
Location: East Tenn
Status: Offline
Points: 184
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tenOCEE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 21 2018 at 9:27pm
How common is this?


Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.047 seconds.