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Underwood serial number 28901xxx

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rynegold View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rynegold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Underwood serial number 28901xxx
    Posted: Oct 27 2021 at 11:52am
could I possibly use a recoil plate marked DI on this rifle? Also it has a high wood stock and I'm not sure that goes with this serial number but it is an Underwood stock.

Any help appreciated,
                   Regards, Mitch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pro Libertate Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 27 2021 at 12:19pm
Hey, Mitch. I'm assuming your Underwood is in the two million range.

I believe it should have a Type 2 or Type 3, marked either ".U." or "AU" in order to be correct for that serial range. A Type 2 (high wood with oval oiler) is feasible.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 27 2021 at 12:26pm
Keep in mind, Inland did transfer recoil plates to Underwood on three different occasions last transfer of 3000 being 12/21/1943.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pro Libertate Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 27 2021 at 12:34pm
Originally posted by W5USMC W5USMC wrote:

Keep in mind, Inland did transfer recoil plates to Underwood on three different occasions last transfer of 3000 being 12/21/1943.

In which case a DI-marked recoil plate is certainly not out of the question.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackp1028 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 27 2021 at 12:49pm
Hi Mitch and welcome to the forum from New Mexico!

Inland transferred over 5,000 recoil plates to Underwood prior to the likely manufacturing date of your carbine, so I would say it's possible that it could be original. An earlier part can often be found on a later serial number. Also, this could happen with the stock as well since during wartime we cannot assume that care was taken to ensure earlier parts were used up before later parts were available (FIFO). I would not assume these parts are not original.    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldboy53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 27 2021 at 1:14pm
First off, welcome to the Club! Secondly, you might have too many x's in your s/n. 

    So, the s/n spread sheets masterfully put together by Jackp1028 (search 'Serial Number Spread Sheets' in 'USCarbineCal30.com' search block, above) puts your carbine 'probable made by date' at Feb 44. 

    As far as the DI recoil plate, pgs. 375 and 376 of 'War Baby' shows that Inland did send recoil plates to Underwood on several occasions, the last being 12-21-43. So yeah, I suppose you could use it. 

    And, about the high wood stock. More info on the markings on it would help narrow down it's probable made by date. Crossed cannons, UEF/GHD, each in a box or not, both in a rectangle together on the right side; M-U, P-U, LW on the left side in the slingwell; several variations of this throughout production.

    Anyway, pictures posted here are the best way for those members much more knowledgeable than this recruit to answer your questions. 

    Again, welcome to the Club, hope you find all the answers you're looking for. But be careful, these Carbines are addicting!Wink I now own six!Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rynegold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 27 2021 at 9:01pm
thanks for the info and replies! I'll post some pics in the morning. One reason I ask is because the recoil plate, and the receiver match in terms of finish. This gun's got a beautiful crown on the muzzle and looks to have been used very little. The rear sight is unmarked.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 28 2021 at 12:15pm
Serial numbers were not assembled in strict order.
Underwood worked on the 4 million block after the one million block. Then they went to the 2 million block. At the end of production they worked on the remainder of the 4 million block.

Barrel date is key. That serial range I would expect a barrel dated 9-43 to possibly 4-44

Pics would help
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 28 2021 at 4:31pm
Mitch,
Do you still have the Davidson Import 
National Postal Meter that had the serial number stamped on the front receiver ring?
I remember it from your post on Milsurps:

Pictured here:



That was a nice Carbine.

Welcome,

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rynegold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 28 2021 at 6:30pm
Hello Charlie! yes I still have that carbine... It's the nicest wood of any I own. So here is an album on Flickr of this Underwood rifle. When I got it the stock on it was marked LW for lum woodworking I assume, and was perhaps a wartime replacement stock. All the parts are right on the gun as far as being Underwood goes, and I got the stock pictured and thought it looked nicer for the rifle than the one it came with. The barrel date is December of 43. The barrel band and sight and mag catch are the ones the rifle came with. It had a push button safety but marked inland and I put an underwood one on it. Here is the album:


Edit: now that I look at that lum woodworking stock, it not only has an underwood recoil plate, but an underwood butt plate as well. Could this have been original? Here are some pics of that stock:



For some reason you may have to cut and paste the URLs above to get to my lunb woodworking album. 


Edited by New2brass - Oct 29 2021 at 6:42pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rynegold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 29 2021 at 7:32am

Still trying to get this link to work..


https://www.flickr.com/gp/19089828@N00/3WPr79.  


Ok this one works. 


Edited by rynegold - Oct 29 2021 at 7:51am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HammerGrunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 29 2021 at 8:29am
Absolutely beautiful wood grain in that buttstock! 

Your underwood Buttplate looks like several others that have been recently reported and are slightly different looking than other underwood diagonal grid buttplates.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smokpole Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 29 2021 at 11:17am
Now that is one pretty piece of walnut. It has a nice straight grain that seems to go all the way from front to back! The walnut is almost too pretty for a military gun stock!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rynegold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 29 2021 at 4:10pm
Lol!  So.... what should I do? Put the Lumb Woodworking stock back on it? w/the Underwood recoil plate? Or will my Underwood U.E.F. marked high wood stock work as well or better?, as correct for this serial #?

Opinions appreciated.

                            Regards, mitch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SSNPingjockey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 29 2021 at 5:27pm
Opinion:  That later UEF cartouche, HW, oval stock COULD be correct for that 2.89mil s/n and 12/43 barrel date.  The 12/43 barrel date is consistent with that s/n.

“Proper” or “correct” on Underwoods in the 2nd and 3rd blocks (the s/n in the 2 and 4mil ranges) is very hard to make hard and fast rules about. The 1st block (1.35mil to 1.44mil) and the 4th block (the 6mils) are much easier to draw conclusions from.

Underwood subcontracted receivers in the 2.3mil to 2.7mil in their assigned serial ranges to Intertype, Universal Winding, United Shoe Machinery Co., and Singer.  At the same time, Underwood was completing the 2.7mil to 2.8mil as well as the 4mil.  Underwood, once the subcontracted receivers were received, worked this into the mix.  So, the 2nd and 3rd blocks were all being worked in no specific serial range all at the same time, as stuff was available.

Many of the subcontracted receivers (2.3 through the 2.6) were not put together until the fall of 43 and into January 1944. I have 2 subcontracted rifles (W and a B) that both appear (as far as can be told) to have their original HW, oval stocks, with the later UEF cartouche. barrel dates are 11/43 and 12/43.

I have a 2.83mil (never touched or messed with….no such thing as 100%, so I am 99% absolute original) that has a 2/1944 barrel date and a LW, oval, late cartouche stock.

So…since your HW stock has the late UEF cartouche….then it was of the absolute latest production HW stocks. The HW oval stocks with the earlier cartouche appeared to have ended at some point in the summer months and MAY have made it to some 2.3mil Intertype receivers…but it is all “May”. The end of the first block (1.35-1.44) were done in the summer at some point.

So…my opinion is that your carbine “likely” could have had a HW or LW oval with the later cartouche.

I just made these statements from memory….so, feel free to whip me with some Ruth or *Riesch.

Chad

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rynegold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 29 2021 at 6:52pm
Thanks for the input Chad! Those are some things I should consider. I started collecting carbines before anybody understood all of the particulars about their manufacturer and the timing during the war when things were put together. Anyway, it's a nice rifle with a perfect crown! What do you think about my unmarked safety? Is that a possibility? Or is it wrong for this rifle. It was on there when I got it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 29 2021 at 6:53pm

the above discusses LW stocks.
Lumb had a contract to make spares.

If your LW stock had the Underwood CC then it would have been used by Underwood very late. I would expect a 2-44 to 4-44 barrel.
Your LW stock does not appear to be sanded enough to remove a CC.

two things stick out, the trigger group with dogleg hammer is out of place and I would expect a fabricated trigger housing.

I am not sure that Underwood ever used the type 2 band.

Looks like you have a nice little stable of carbines going there!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rynegold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 29 2021 at 8:49pm
I dug most of them out of the safe today to have a look... It is a potpourri if ever there was one! Most from over the 30 years I've collected them. I couldn't remember what the heck I had so a look-see was in order. The Un-Quality and the Underwood not pictured... Two of these I actually acquired from thie service person that brought them back disassembled in there duffle bag (a common occurrence)... 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SSNPingjockey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 29 2021 at 10:25pm
in my above discussion, I was referring to “HW” for high wood and “LW” for low wood….not “Lumb Woodworking”.  Yes, Underwood use of Lumb Woodworking stocks is a different issue.  I guess I should have explained my use of “LW”.

As far as your safety, I am not aware of Underwood ever having or using a marked safety. They should be unmarked. I’d have to check Ruth to see whether a T2 or T3 safety for that 1/44 build timeframe, but I think it would be a T3 push safety, unmarked.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rynegold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 31 2021 at 1:54pm
So in looking at my how would stock, have noticed the repair there on the left hand side of the receiver... There's also one up on the right hand side for the barrel band. But this one on the side of the receiver, is apparently walnut wood, but would that be an arsenal repair? Also here is a link to the three handguards I can select from... The one closest to the rifle is the best match, in terms of condition and wood tone.




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