The Carbine Collectors Club
Forum Home Forum Home > The Club > General Discussion
  New Posts New Posts
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Underwood rebuild

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
rwsem1 View Drop Down
Recruit
Recruit


Joined: Mar 03 2018
Location: SOWELA (SW Loui
Status: Offline
Points: 18
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rwsem1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Underwood rebuild
    Posted: Mar 09 2018 at 7:56am
I intend to go look at this carbine very soon.this carbine

This is the first time I've looked over a carbine and have read Craig Riesch's book pretty thoroughly and have been all over this discussion forum. I value any responses/ tips/ cautions/ etc. Being Cabela's, I know it's probably priced a bit high and intend to work a better price point if everything checks out and I'm feeling comfortable.

Judging from online pics, I believe it to be a circ.'51 rebuild at Underwood and possibly remaining authentic since then. The rack number may be a club rack #? I've searched for 'rack numbers' and 'painted numbers' to no avail.
Back to Top
jackp1028 View Drop Down
Grunt
Grunt
Avatar

Joined: Jan 01 2016
Location: Cloudcroft, NM
Status: Offline
Points: 229
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackp1028 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 09 2018 at 11:11am
It looks like your assessment is spot on. I don't see any parts that don't belong on a rebuild. The wood and metal finish appears pretty uniform. Looks like the barrel and receiver probably match but you won't know for sure until you see the date. The painted number is probably an armory rack number. There were no standards for such designations. I would take along a muzzle erosion gauge if you have one. Also, you probably already know to check for import stamps. Too bad there's no pictures of the top or bottom.

Good luck! Tell us how it turns out.
JackP
Back to Top
rwsem1 View Drop Down
Recruit
Recruit


Joined: Mar 03 2018
Location: SOWELA (SW Loui
Status: Offline
Points: 18
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rwsem1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 09 2018 at 11:28am
Thanks, I don't have a ME gauge but I do have a set of (minus) pin gauges so I'll take a handful. What I think I understand is .300 is new, .3005 like new, .301 exc, .3015 good, .302 fair, .3025 poor, .303 time to replace. I cast my own bullets and can size to fit the bore if it's poor- so that's just a negotiating point for price if that's the case.

Anyone else? The metal condition is kind of funky- not certain if it's just oil that's dried or if the metal is actually pitted. Thoughts?

Ron
Back to Top
Charles View Drop Down
Grunt
Grunt
Avatar

Joined: Mar 21 2016
Location: Maryland
Status: Offline
Points: 359
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 09 2018 at 12:55pm
That trigger housing could be an IBM or Quality Hardware and possibly others as well.. Also, it was a prototype for Inland but never used. Hope this helps.
Charles
Co B 1st Batl.115 Inf. Reg.
29th. Divi.
4.2 Heavy Mortar Co Retired
Life member NRA

Back to Top
jackp1028 View Drop Down
Grunt
Grunt
Avatar

Joined: Jan 01 2016
Location: Cloudcroft, NM
Status: Offline
Points: 229
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackp1028 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 09 2018 at 2:39pm
The only place I see what might be oxidation is in the last picture of the barrel. It's hard to tell. It could just be 75 years of accumulated gunk. I don't think it's pitted. Let us know when you see it in person.
JackP
Back to Top
New2brass View Drop Down
Hard Corps
Hard Corps
Avatar
Dan Pinto!

Joined: Nov 29 2015
Location: CT
Status: Offline
Points: 1385
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 09 2018 at 6:07pm
I am going out on a limb and say that the trigger housing is an Underwood.
In case you do not know Underwood marked with a .U. on the back wall of mag opening.
Back to Top
jackp1028 View Drop Down
Grunt
Grunt
Avatar

Joined: Jan 01 2016
Location: Cloudcroft, NM
Status: Offline
Points: 229
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackp1028 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 09 2018 at 7:54pm
Regarding muzzle erosion. A higher number is not necessarily bad. My QHMC has a ME of 2.5 but still shoots tighter than my Winchester with a ME of 1.0. It is more of an indication of how the carbine might have been cared for (cleaning rod wear). But like you say, it could be a factor in negotiating a purchase price.
JackP
Back to Top
New2brass View Drop Down
Hard Corps
Hard Corps
Avatar
Dan Pinto!

Joined: Nov 29 2015
Location: CT
Status: Offline
Points: 1385
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 09 2018 at 8:03pm
Back to Top
m1a1fan View Drop Down
Hard Corps
Hard Corps
Avatar
Got Para?

Joined: Jan 01 2016
Location: Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 1134
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m1a1fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 09 2018 at 8:38pm
Nice looking carbine. Hope you get it. Looks like it could have some interesting parts in it.

Doesn't look like a Rock TH. As previously mentioned, it could be a UW TH or an IBM TH. Here's an example of an IBM TH profile.

Back to Top
jackp1028 View Drop Down
Grunt
Grunt
Avatar

Joined: Jan 01 2016
Location: Cloudcroft, NM
Status: Offline
Points: 229
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackp1028 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 09 2018 at 9:10pm
I go along with Dan on this. I think the TH is Underwood. It definitely looks green. The IBM looks a little red? Ron, you will have to let us know if you get it.
JackP
Back to Top
rwsem1 View Drop Down
Recruit
Recruit


Joined: Mar 03 2018
Location: SOWELA (SW Loui
Status: Offline
Points: 18
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rwsem1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 09 2018 at 9:18pm
Got the call this evening that it's in so the road trip tomorrow is a go. My wife and I will probably stop at Mulate's in Breaux Bridge for some chow, or maybe Prejean's in Lafayatte. Anyway- it'll be a good education and a great way to spend the day.
Back to Top
m1a1fan View Drop Down
Hard Corps
Hard Corps
Avatar
Got Para?

Joined: Jan 01 2016
Location: Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 1134
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m1a1fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 09 2018 at 9:39pm
@rwswm: Congrats on the acquisition!

Color determines manufacturer? Learn something new every day.
Back to Top
New2brass View Drop Down
Hard Corps
Hard Corps
Avatar
Dan Pinto!

Joined: Nov 29 2015
Location: CT
Status: Offline
Points: 1385
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 09 2018 at 9:53pm
To be clear it is only speculation that the green is Underwood. As I said in the linked post the housing I found looked to be original finish. However other Underwood T4 housings observed were not.
 
I have seen T4 housings from different manufactures from light to med gray, dark gray to a black.
Different manufacturers used different approved methods of finish. SO there may be a variation as well as possibility of refinish.
 
I have seen several T4 THs from Underwood in this green and then 2 barreled receivers from Underwood with this green tint. I have not observed this on others, but that does not mean it did not happen.
 
Many have tried to duplicate that green color park seen on some original carbines. Was this an attempt and I wound up with several from different parts of the country? Or did Underwood use some form of zinc plating process at some point?
 
So if anyone ever comes across these off green parts please post!
 
I realized after I posted in other thread that color balance of camera was off so the green is not as noticeable in pictures as in person. The picture above of the BE-B may look red but think it just a patina. Assuming background is white then I would say color balance is off on that picture as well.
 
Another problem is different monitors can display differently. YMMV
Back to Top
m1a1fan View Drop Down
Hard Corps
Hard Corps
Avatar
Got Para?

Joined: Jan 01 2016
Location: Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 1134
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m1a1fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 09 2018 at 10:32pm
Given my pictures taking skills are suspect, I'm wondering if one can identify brazed trigger housings by their shape. I've seen brazed Rock TH's with trigger guards that are a different shape. UW's and IBM's look similar. Have not seen a QH TH for comparison. Perhaps someone can post pics of other TH's for comparison purposes? Not trying to hijack the OP's thread, instead just trying to provide information and visual representations of things like trigger housing shapes to those asking questions.
Back to Top
jackp1028 View Drop Down
Grunt
Grunt
Avatar

Joined: Jan 01 2016
Location: Cloudcroft, NM
Status: Offline
Points: 229
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jackp1028 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 09 2018 at 11:17pm
Here are a few I pulled off of the WWW! They all look the same to me except Standard Products. Check TH pin location.


IBM





Underwood





QHMC





Standard Products





Rock-ola

JackP
Back to Top
m1a1fan View Drop Down
Hard Corps
Hard Corps
Avatar
Got Para?

Joined: Jan 01 2016
Location: Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 1134
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m1a1fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 10 2018 at 9:57pm
Still think the curve on the rear of the Rock trigger guard looks different than the others. Would need additional examples of each and multiple close up views to research and draw conclusions. Would be tough to do in today's climate of rising prices for parts though.

While the parts were supposed to be the same and interchangeable, wondering if their were nuances in parts like the Rock trigger guard of the SP? For example, some barrels were smooth and some had concentric circles.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.