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Type III barrel band w/bayonet lug

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Paul1262 View Drop Down
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    Posted: Oct 09 2018 at 2:33pm
I have read that a Winchester carbine produced between Nov 44 and Jan 45 having a type III band would be marked "C". Is it possible that the band could also be marked "SA" and still be correct?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Why Carbines? Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 09 2018 at 3:28pm
Originally posted by Paul1262 Paul1262 wrote:

I have read that a Winchester carbine produced between Nov 44 and Jan 45 having a type III band would be marked "C". Is it possible that the band could also be marked "SA" and still be correct?


Yes, but it's not a one hundred percent proven thing, just very close to it given the number of late Winchesters with type three bands other than the Cowles one you mentioned.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul1262 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 09 2018 at 5:19pm
My research indicates type 3 barrel bands were marked as follows:

                  Winchester: C
                  Inland: AI KI SI HI UI

No other WW II contractor made these.

Other WW II markings: AMCO JM SA MMQ C GM Q Diamond with a D in it or unmarked.

If I have a Winchester dated December 1944, could a type III band stamped SA be correct?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Why Carbines? Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 09 2018 at 5:44pm
AMCO, SA, D in a diamond, (Donaldson?) and various Inland marked ones have been seen on later Winchester carbines. What is the first part of your serial? My remembrance is they started using type three barrel bands in February or so of 45.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul1262 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 09 2018 at 6:09pm
First four digits are: 6585
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul1262 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 09 2018 at 6:11pm
Serial number is in the production range of Nov 44 - Jan 45.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Why Carbines? Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 09 2018 at 6:57pm
Paul, If those are the first four digits of the serial then you are safely in the range of the type barrel band, thus a SA barrel band is a strong possibility. Also, you serial is more a May 45 or possible June 45 production date. Has the front sight ever been off or can you tell?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul1262 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 09 2018 at 7:26pm
The uscarbinecal30m1.com web site - "M1 Carbine Serial Number Production Chart" offers an approximate date of Nov 44 - Jan 45 for a serial number range of 6449868 - 6629883. There is no sign of the front sight ever being removed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Bubba-7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 09 2018 at 7:28pm
Inland moved the firing proof some time before the type 3 band started showing up.  Winchester did not move the PW until the type 3 bands were on the carbine.  So on most Winchesters the location of the PW will tell you which type band was originally on it.  
Also if it had a type 3 band already on it, there would not be a reason to replace it during a rebuild unless the band was broken.
I know for a fact, in my early years, I removed original SA, JM, D, type 3 barrel bands from 7.2 Winchesters and restored them with either, a W or low C bands.  And I thought I was smart because some book said the was right.  
Everybody on ebay knows that W and low C bands were used by Winchester.  Right.  Ask any seller.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Why Carbines? Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 10 2018 at 9:05am
Originally posted by Paul1262 Paul1262 wrote:

The uscarbinecal30m1.com web site - "M1 Carbine Serial Number Production Chart" offers an approximate date of Nov 44 - Jan 45 for a serial number range of 6449868 - 6629883. There is no sign of the front sight ever being removed.


First, if the front sight shows no signs of ever being off then I'd feel pretty strongly that the SA band is original. Second, that site, while having some decent info, is wildly off in their carbine serial range estimates. Your receiver would have not been stamped till late April of 45 and finished into a carbine for most likely weeks later.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul1262 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 10 2018 at 10:32am
John, thanks for your observations and comments - much appreciated.
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