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Type 1 band weld repair?

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GotSnlB28 View Drop Down
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    Posted: Apr 07 2021 at 10:47pm
Didn't really need another project to tinker with, but I picked up an inexpensive original type 1 band that has come apart at the top weld. Has anyone successfully repaired one that held up in use? I was thinking maybe it could be brazed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 07 2021 at 11:41pm
GotSnl,

Check local body shop, farm repair or weld shop.
I had a guy down at a local Farm Equip place spot weld some thin metal for me, a small box put in the boat storage bunker. Same guy made my Park tanks years ago.

He pulled out what I call a Spot Pinch Welder. As soon as he fired it up and welded the first few spots.
I thought right away home much it looked like the weld spots on our bands. I used him again last fall for some Cab corner patch panels I'd made up and took in already clamped, just needing some pinch welds.
He told me to look in to mini spot welders but I never did, might now.

I forget the brand he had and if you open this link, his was maybe a 1/4 the size of the one in this link.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GotSnlB28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 09 2021 at 7:59am
P, makes sense, use the original fabrication way. Looking things over, I don't think the lower arm of the "pincher" would fit with the inner ring, even with a smaller version. I'm not a welding guy but I suppose they had a fixture where perhaps the band was grounded and the electrode (or whatever that is called) comes down from the top. There are no marks on the inner band indicting a weld, and it would need to be smooth there for the barrel.
I think getting the parts aligned properly is going to be a trick too, if I attempt to braze.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 09 2021 at 10:00am
I believe it is just called spot welding.
The arms and electrodes can be changed to different configurations.
The arms apply pressure and electricity flows through the electrodes creating a  high resistance at the joint which heats up and melts. as the metal flows the pressure pushes the metal together to weld the pieces together.

two pieces of metal joined up at the ends is called a butt joint. A spot welder is better suited to lap joints where one piece of metal is on top of another. I have used spot welds on a butt joint to hold the metal in place then followed up by welding or brazing.

Spot welding can harden metal at the joint. Basically with a but joint any flex would probably just snap the weld.

Brazing is not welding as the base metal does not flow (melt). The filler material will get into the grain of the base metal. Once you braze something you cannot weld it without grinding out all the filler material, even then you may have issues.

You may get away with butt joining and brazing. If this joint fails then you could take a small piece of metal shaped to the band and lap joint it over the break. This would be far stronger and less prone to re-fracturing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GotSnlB28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 09 2021 at 10:46am
Dan, to clarify the situation the band came apart at the spot welds so it's separated into two pieces; the outer band with the screw clamp, inner band with handguard retainer. It would be a lapping joint not a butt.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 09 2021 at 11:17am
@ GotSnl,
I picked up seed this morning and stopped by that Farm repair. Took a Type I band with me to show the Welder. I took fresh donuts from the local bakery Wink

Seen the same guy that made my Park tanks and put my SS storage boxes together for a boat.

I don't recall all the particulars and technical stuff he said... But roughly:
He called the Weld spots on the Band 'Poke Welds' said once the metal was overlapped it's 'Poked' from only one side (the top).

He said he'd use a Hand Gun Spot Weld Poke Gun. Welds from one side and leaves no or very little build up that would have to be ground down or lightly hit with a Dremel... IF needed. Nothing should be seen inside except a possible heat burn spot, if the guy doing the Welding set the dials / current correctly.

Said he used a Cruxweld Brand Gun. We were at the front counter, but he went out back and brought the Gun out to show me.
The band I took has 3 weld spots. He said if one was pulled loose that he'd 'Poke' all three so they'd look uniformed and to be sure the other welds were strong. Has different size tips for different diameter spots.

Said it would take him about 15 minutes and cost $25 or less........ Depending on how he was feeling that day. Added most Good Welding and Body Shops have these type of set ups these days. Especially shops that do fabricating.

Then he wanted to talk Carbines but I had to go. I've got a tree cutter coming out sometime today to give me a price to take down a big Maple.

I found this Cruxweld Video that has a Gun that looked very much like the one he showed me. You'll want to Mute it ,you'll hear why. He did say there were many different brands of Poke Guns.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 09 2021 at 11:24am
For brazing the two pieces together you need to clean the broken spot weld where it touches and clean the metal good.
Brazing does not do as good of a job as filling voids as soldering. Soldering also is done at at lower temperature.

It might be a better candidate for silver solder.

Stay away from the stuff at the big box stores. I use Sta-Brite that I get at my local welding supply shop. Probably cheaper online, but I support local.
It comes with proper liquid flux that helps the solder flow in.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GotSnlB28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 09 2021 at 9:02pm
Great info guys.. Charlie, I think your welder guy has the ticket for a solution closest to the original. Watched the video and the poke welder looks like it would work perfectly. I'll have to see if any of the shops around here could do that. Or figure in shipping to MI with a box of donuts

Silver solder would probably work too. I guess the Germans soldered those notch sights on the Bavarian carbines so it should hold up.

Thanks!
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