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Carbine of Interest Inland 270

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HammerGrunt View Drop Down
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    Posted: Aug 09 2023 at 6:35pm
I've been off the net for awhile travelling and I logged in to check on the postings and when I checked in to see if anything new had been posted on this Carbine of Interest Noteworthy Article I see that its had over 10K views... WOW!  I had no idea this special early Inland would have generated so much interest and attention. 

Thank you again Dan for all the work you and others did to share it with others. I'm gonna go pull it out of the safe and wipe it down with much appreciation and affection Smile
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Dan Pinto, Photo Editor

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 09 2023 at 10:08am
Jack, Excellent work!

as tot he OB and P, they may have been different inspectors, or different types of inspections.
Also do not get hung up on the serial numbers when looking at the 3, 4, 5 digit carbines.
you need to look at barrel dates. Consider the following, how many receivers were on hand and ready to be assembled? 2000, 5000, 10000?

The receivers were just put into bins or racks. I am confident there was no number order. Then keep in mind those sidetracked for imperfections and rework.

Asa did not look at the interference, but he did send some more pictures

Here is the 270 TH next to the 1186

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/uploads/6054/Inl270.jpg

270 the recess for the magazine nibs were milled. 1186 they were broached. Procedure wise broaching is simpler and many times faster in setup and operation, but it is a highly specialized machine requiring special tooling.

If anyone has an early Inland, let us know if it is the milled version

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackp1028 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 08 2023 at 7:29pm
As Dan mentioned, there is usually a little space between the rear wall and the receiver when assembled, maybe .010" to .015". The thing to most likely affect the amount of clearance or interference with the receiver is the location of the trigger housing retaining pin hole. I suppose the right accumulation of tolerances could allow the retaining pin hole location to vary enough to result in such a tight fit.

I doubt that this tight fit would have been intentional. I guess the question I would ask is, how does this trigger housing fit on other receivers?. Or, how do other trigger housings fit on this receiver? Where does the true source of the tightness lie?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HammerGrunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 08 2023 at 5:00pm
Jack in regards to the early Inland narrow wall trigger housings you mention, I wonder if Asa Overall's Inland 1186 narrow wall trigger housing that has the P on it also has the unusual tight fit matching wear marks on its trigger housing and receiver interface like 270's has that Dan remarked on early in this post.
I also wonder if anyone else has seen this type of matching wear marks on their Inlands?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackp1028 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 08 2023 at 4:44pm
Data Sheets for S/N 1447, 1983 and 31217 show Ordnance bombs on the "left side" with the narrow wall trigger housing. S/N 61321 from Larry Ruth's collection also has a narrow wall trigger housing with the Ordnance bomb mark above the mag catch.

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/7-may-2023-larry-ruth-war-baby-gi-carbines_topic6547.html#55307

No records of later serial numbers having such markings are found after an extensive search of carbines recorded in the Inland Serial Number Spread Sheet. It appears the Ordnance bomb marking appeared only on early Inland Type 1 trigger housings with the narrow rear wall feature.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HammerGrunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 08 2023 at 4:33pm
Thank you Jack for the research and information. Whatever and whenever this P was placed on these early Inland trigger housings is interesting because so far we only know of two examples and your thoughts about the other early Serial Number Inlands potentially having a different trigger housing than what they came out of the factory with is a fair point as well.
The mystery continues!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote jackp1028 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 08 2023 at 3:17pm
Hunterman's Fiji guerilla's carbine S/N 931 has the Ordnance bomb only but no "P".

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/feature-inland-931-first-commando-fiji-guerillas_topic5057.html

Also, I don't see a "P" on Larry Ruth's Inland S/N 289 (Ordnance bomb only).

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/sold-carbines-from-the-larry-ruth-collection_topic6550_post56569.html#56569

Nevinator's Inland S/N 342 has neither the "P" nor Ordnance bomb.

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/inland-serial-342-restored_topic4830.html

03collector's S/N 938 has the Ordnance bomb only, no "P".

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/photos-of-my-inland-sn-938_topic5185_post39780.html?KW=#39780

To me, the application of the "P" seems somewhat random. Here are four other examples in the same serial number range with no "P" marking. Perhaps it is because a couple of these examples might have been "restorations"? I think we need a larger sample before any conclusions can be made.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HammerGrunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 08 2023 at 1:36pm
Thank you Dan!  This seems to show that Inland was marking its very earliest Trigger Housings with a P initially, then with both the P and the Ordinance Bomb, and then dropped the P very early on and just used the Ordinance Bomb. It's amazing that we still are discovering new information like this on these earliest produced Carbines.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 08 2023 at 11:10am
Recently Asa Overall had his Inland 1186 out, that we previously reported has the taller flip sight.
Here is a picture of his trigger housing with a P and an ord bomb on the left side

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/uploads/6054/TH1186.jpg

Inland 270 for comparison

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HammerGrunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 30 2023 at 9:48pm
Originally posted by HammerGrunt HammerGrunt wrote:

Close Ups of the differences on the front wall of the Trigger Housing.
270
And here's Dan's research on the early Inland Trigger Housing changes that he posted early in this thread so maybe this Front Wall inner and outer difference was prior to the changes they made in order to make it more symmetrical and easier to produce.
  
 "One of Inland’s contributions to the development of the carbine was to change the design of the trigger housing to make it more symmetrical and easier to produce. With the mag well symmetrical the relief cuts could be broached instead of milled. The broaching process was faster and was the only style reported on production Inland made trigger housings."

Thank you AGAIN Dan for your amazing work and research on this early Inland!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HammerGrunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 30 2023 at 9:12pm
Marcus have you ever seen a Trigger Guard front wall both on the outer side and the inner Mag Well side with a shape like 270's?  Its different from all my others and I'm surprised how well Magazines slide in and out of it...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote welbytwo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 30 2023 at 9:06pm
that thing is so early they were still deciding how much to mill off!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HammerGrunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 30 2023 at 8:58pm
Notice the longitudinal milled groove on the flat to the left side of the trigger guard. All of my other Carbines to include Inland 3446 have a completely Flat and Smooth surface at this location so I assume it was a milling tool error that was later corrected on full production runs.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HammerGrunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 30 2023 at 8:19pm
Close Ups of the differences on the front wall of the Trigger Housing.
270
 
3446



Edited by HammerGrunt - Jun 30 2023 at 8:46pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HammerGrunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 30 2023 at 8:14pm
I also found another interesting "difference" with Inland 270. The front end of 270's Mag Well is shaped differently from all my other Carbines. You can see that it has a non-liner / non straight edge and it also has different bevels on the inner shoulders as compared to all of my other Magazine wells, and its Stock is cut out with the "curve" to accommodate the Magazine wall. Of note, Magazines fit fine in 270's odd shaped Mag well. 

Here's pics of Inland 270 and Inland 3446 to show what I'm referring to and I'm curious if anyone else has a Mag Well shaped oddly like 270's, or was this another example of it being a pre full production "test" parts gun and maybe why it has the "P" stamped on its Mag Well where others have an Ordinance Bomb stamp?
  
Inland 270

Inland 3446
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HammerGrunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 29 2023 at 8:42pm
I was going back over Dan's amazing article on this super early Production Inland that has some parts that may even be Pre full production test type parts and I realized that I hadn't ever shown any pictures of the LW U Underwood Buttstock that this very early Carbine ended up in. 
This stock has no inspectors Flaming Bomb, Crossed Cannon Wheel, or P markings so its possible that this was a replacement stock that was used in the Inland Factory when this Production type carbine was being used for testing.
The Handguard has no stamps or markings on it.







Edited by HammerGrunt - Jun 29 2023 at 9:09pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HammerGrunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 21 2023 at 7:51pm
Sadly to True Marine...
Makes me even more in Awe of that generation of great Americans who fought on the War Front as well as those on the Home Front who supported those who fought during World War II, and the M1 carbine in my historical opinion was foundational to their victory on both Fronts!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 21 2023 at 3:43pm
Originally posted by HammerGrunt HammerGrunt wrote:

how our Nations citizens became so committed to pulling together as a people with the collective Focus of just surviving and winning the War. 

Unfortunately, I don't think we will ever see that type of commitment again. Hopefully I am wrong!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HammerGrunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 21 2023 at 3:37pm
I’m still amazed whenever I look at the parts and pieces on this Carbine #270 that were produced early in 1942 by a Company that had previously been producing Car steering wheels, as compared to the parts and pieces 6 Million Serial # later that were produced  by so many other American manufacturers in 1945. 

To me, This Carbine #270 represents the humbling thought of where our Nation was so early in the War and how our Nations citizens became so committed to pulling together as a people with the collective Focus of just surviving and winning the War. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HammerGrunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 31 2022 at 7:51pm
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