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Carbine of Interest Inland 270 |
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Dave Tennent
On Point Joined: Jan 02 2016 Location: Maryland Status: Offline Points: 261 |
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Posted: Mar 31 2024 at 9:28pm |
There are no stake marks anchoring the rear sight base to the dovetail. How unusual is this?
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Dave
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HammerGrunt
On Point Joined: Aug 05 2021 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 436 |
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HammerGrunt
On Point Joined: Aug 05 2021 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 436 |
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HammerGrunt
On Point Joined: Aug 05 2021 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 436 |
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Everyone I think will be really amazed when a more detailed article comes out, and it shows that there’s just an O and a flaming bomb in the sling well, which I understand it was the very earliest marks for inland Stocks.
Edited by HammerGrunt - Mar 30 2024 at 11:36am |
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HammerGrunt
On Point Joined: Aug 05 2021 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 436 |
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Here’s a few more pics that Dave said that I could share. I can’t wait for a more extensive article to come out on this amazing battle brother of my 270 Inland 😎
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HammerGrunt
On Point Joined: Aug 05 2021 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 436 |
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I recently was contacted by Dan Pinto with some super exciting news!
In Dan's awesome research article he did on 270 he commented on its never before seen Operating Slide cam configuration and everyone believed that in must have been a very early pre-production test slide but Dan let me know that long time forum member Dave Tennet had recently shared some pictures of Inland 292 (which is just 22 numbers after 270), and he was super surprised with something he saw, And when he shared it with me I was shocked when I saw it as well ! Like 270, 292 has a 5-42 barrel and it also doesn't have a hammer plunger hole recess for the hammer spring. Its trigger housing magazine well does have the two relief cuts that extend the full length of the back wall though. What's incredible though is that 292's Slide had the exact SAME cam design as 270. So now there are two known never before seen earliest of early Inland Operation Slides that we know exist. I speculate that these different cam design Slides may have been used on the first 200 or so Rifles that went out the door to arm the 1st US Infantry Division as it stood up in the Summer of 1942 in Indian Town Gap PA, deployed to England early August 1942 and then landed in North Africa in November 1942. Dave Tennent has given me permission to post a picture of his Slide and a couple other pics of his super early Inland! I'm told that a more detailed description of 292 and its amazing WW II General Officer provenance will be forthcoming. 292 Slide cam. Edited by New2brass - Mar 30 2024 at 7:44am |
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Semper Fidelis!
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HammerGrunt
On Point Joined: Aug 05 2021 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 436 |
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I've been off the net for awhile travelling and I logged in to check on the postings and when I checked in to see if anything new had been posted on this Carbine of Interest Noteworthy Article I see that its had over 10K views... WOW! I had no idea this special early Inland would have generated so much interest and attention.
Thank you again Dan for all the work you and others did to share it with others. I'm gonna go pull it out of the safe and wipe it down with much appreciation and affection
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New2brass
Moderator Group Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4664 |
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Jack, Excellent work! as tot he OB and P, they may have been different inspectors, or different types of inspections. Also do not get hung up on the serial numbers when looking at the 3, 4, 5 digit carbines. you need to look at barrel dates. Consider the following, how many receivers were on hand and ready to be assembled? 2000, 5000, 10000? The receivers were just put into bins or racks. I am confident there was no number order. Then keep in mind those sidetracked for imperfections and rework. Asa did not look at the interference, but he did send some more pictures Here is the 270 TH next to the 1186 270 the recess for the magazine nibs were milled. 1186 they were broached. Procedure wise broaching is simpler and many times faster in setup and operation, but it is a highly specialized machine requiring special tooling. If anyone has an early Inland, let us know if it is the milled version |
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jackp1028
Hard Corps Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Cloudcroft, NM Status: Offline Points: 1278 |
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As Dan mentioned, there is usually a little space between the rear wall and the receiver when assembled, maybe .010" to .015". The thing to most likely affect the amount of clearance or interference with the receiver is the location of the trigger housing retaining pin hole. I suppose the right accumulation of tolerances could allow the retaining pin hole location to vary enough to result in such a tight fit.
I doubt that this tight fit would have been intentional. I guess the question I would ask is, how does this trigger housing fit on other receivers?. Or, how do other trigger housings fit on this receiver? Where does the true source of the tightness lie? |
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JackP
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HammerGrunt
On Point Joined: Aug 05 2021 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 436 |
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Jack in regards to the early Inland narrow wall trigger housings you mention, I wonder if Asa Overall's Inland 1186 narrow wall trigger housing that has the P on it also has the unusual tight fit matching wear marks on its trigger housing and receiver interface like 270's has that Dan remarked on early in this post.
I also wonder if anyone else has seen this type of matching wear marks on their Inlands?
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jackp1028
Hard Corps Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Cloudcroft, NM Status: Offline Points: 1278 |
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Data Sheets for S/N 1447, 1983 and 31217 show Ordnance bombs on the "left side" with the narrow wall trigger housing. S/N 61321 from Larry Ruth's collection also has a narrow wall trigger housing with the Ordnance bomb mark above the mag catch.
http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/7-may-2023-larry-ruth-war-baby-gi-carbines_topic6547.html#55307 No records of later serial numbers having such markings are found after an extensive search of carbines recorded in the Inland Serial Number Spread Sheet. It appears the Ordnance bomb marking appeared only on early Inland Type 1 trigger housings with the narrow rear wall feature. |
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JackP
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HammerGrunt
On Point Joined: Aug 05 2021 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 436 |
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Thank you Jack for the research and information. Whatever and whenever this P was placed on these early Inland trigger housings is interesting because so far we only know of two examples and your thoughts about the other early Serial Number Inlands potentially having a different trigger housing than what they came out of the factory with is a fair point as well.
The mystery continues!
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jackp1028
Hard Corps Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Cloudcroft, NM Status: Offline Points: 1278 |
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Hunterman's Fiji guerilla's carbine S/N 931 has the Ordnance bomb only but no "P".
http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/feature-inland-931-first-commando-fiji-guerillas_topic5057.html Also, I don't see a "P" on Larry Ruth's Inland S/N 289 (Ordnance bomb only). http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/sold-carbines-from-the-larry-ruth-collection_topic6550_post56569.html#56569 Nevinator's Inland S/N 342 has neither the "P" nor Ordnance bomb. http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/inland-serial-342-restored_topic4830.html 03collector's S/N 938 has the Ordnance bomb only, no "P". http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/photos-of-my-inland-sn-938_topic5185_post39780.html?KW=#39780 To me, the application of the "P" seems somewhat random. Here are four other examples in the same serial number range with no "P" marking. Perhaps it is because a couple of these examples might have been "restorations"? I think we need a larger sample before any conclusions can be made. |
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JackP
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HammerGrunt
On Point Joined: Aug 05 2021 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 436 |
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Thank you Dan! This seems to show that Inland was marking its very earliest Trigger Housings with a P initially, then with both the P and the Ordinance Bomb, and then dropped the P very early on and just used the Ordinance Bomb. It's amazing that we still are discovering new information like this on these earliest produced Carbines.
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New2brass
Moderator Group Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4664 |
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Recently Asa Overall had his Inland 1186 out, that we previously reported has the taller flip sight. Here is a picture of his trigger housing with a P and an ord bomb on the left side Inland 270 for comparison |
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HammerGrunt
On Point Joined: Aug 05 2021 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 436 |
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And here's Dan's research on the early Inland Trigger Housing changes that he posted early in this thread so maybe this Front Wall inner and outer difference was prior to the changes they made in order to make it more symmetrical and easier to produce. "One of Inland’s contributions to the development of the carbine was to change the design of the trigger housing to make it more symmetrical and easier to produce. With the mag well symmetrical the relief cuts could be broached instead of milled. The broaching process was faster and was the only style reported on production Inland made trigger housings." Thank you AGAIN Dan for your amazing work and research on this early Inland!
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HammerGrunt
On Point Joined: Aug 05 2021 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 436 |
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Marcus have you ever seen a Trigger Guard front wall both on the outer side and the inner Mag Well side with a shape like 270's? Its different from all my others and I'm surprised how well Magazines slide in and out of it...
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welbytwo
Hard Corps Advanced Collector Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 805 |
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that thing is so early they were still deciding how much to mill off!!!
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HammerGrunt
On Point Joined: Aug 05 2021 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 436 |
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Notice the longitudinal milled groove on the flat to the left side of the trigger guard. All of my other Carbines to include Inland 3446 have a completely Flat and Smooth surface at this location so I assume it was a milling tool error that was later corrected on full production runs.
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HammerGrunt
On Point Joined: Aug 05 2021 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 436 |
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Close Ups of the differences on the front wall of the Trigger Housing.
270 3446 Edited by HammerGrunt - Jun 30 2023 at 8:46pm |
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