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Universal M1 Carbine (need help)

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tenOCEE View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tenOCEE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Universal M1 Carbine (need help)
    Posted: Oct 03 2019 at 7:00pm
They're around $1000 for the commercial Inland.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 03 2019 at 6:58pm
I’d have to go search-it-down, but I think I recall that Inland (the new one) was manufacturing a pistol carbine at one time. Looked just like the enforcer. I am not even sure if Inland is still around and possibly is/was in the Khar and Auto Ordnance family. Don’t know if that offering succeeded or not.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tenOCEE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 03 2019 at 6:43pm
Advisor Carbines are cooler than an AR pistol. And even a standard length M1A1 is shorter than a 12" barreled AR If I remember correctly, due to the gas tube.
There are many damaged barrels out there for usage. Some are Blue Sky, Herlo, counter bored, blued, markings removed, sleeved barrels from Commercial makers, Criterion, etc.. Mine was originally a GI barrel that was already pistol length, which may have been done by one of the commercial companies. Can't remember now but it may have been one of the sleeved versions from a demilled gas section sleeved with a 1903.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 03 2019 at 6:07pm
I guess all of us have quirky things we do that makes the other guy wonder, I know I’m guilty.

I can’t see cutting down a 30 Carbine for a pistol. There are too many good and cheap AR pistol caliber components out there at the moment. The manufacturers are practically giving the stuff away. One reduces the effectiveness of the 7.62x33 when the barrel is whacked. Too much 9mm stuff out there to build and shoot for 1/3 the cost of 30-caliber ammo.
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tenOCEE View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tenOCEE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 03 2019 at 5:29pm
That's good information on the marking of the commercial receivers that can keep someone out of legal issues. I'm sure people have had that question in mind on how anyone might find out if it's been one or the other.

This is the reason people buy a newly produced receiver to assemble a pistol length Carbine. You can get a Fulton receiver, especially when they go on sale a couple of times per year in the $270 range. Or save money and get an Enforcer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sleeplessnashadow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 03 2019 at 2:54am
Originally posted by tenOCEE tenOCEE wrote:

What I understand is that if a receiver has been originally assembled as a rifle with barrel of legal rifle length it isn't legal to assemble it with a short barrel without an NFA form approval and tax plus permanent marking.



Hi guys

tenOCEE is correct.

I was contact by the fella that runs the ATF reference library a number of years ago. The reconstruction work I was doing with serial numbers and year of manufacture on M1CarbinesInc.com was of interest to them. But they needed it in book form, not on a website.

A couple years later he contacted me again. This time asking for permission to use the M1CarbinesInc.com website and it's info for manufacturing years.

During the exchange the topic of the "Enforcer" models came up. Manufacturers were/are required to identify their carbine receivers made for a pistol identifiable as such so they can be distinguished from those made for a rifle. An ATF regulation so they can enforce the laws regarding minimum rifle barrel length.

Universal Firearms did this by imprinting the name Enforcer into the top of the receiver. Where ATF was having difficulty was with the Enforcer and Super Enforcers made by Plainfield Machine and more so with Iver Johnson's Arms. These two companies identified their Enforcer models using 1-3 letters added before the serial number. With Iver Johnson these letters changed over time. In part due to changes in ownership of the company.

If you want a legal short barreled carbine it needs to have a receiver with the designation indicating it was manufactured for a pistol. Or do the complicated and not so welcome paperwork and dance with ATF to convert a rifle to a pistol.

I realize the only difference between the two receivers is the marking identifying it as made for a pistol. Logic is irrelevant when it comes to law "enforcement". Where logic should take place is when the laws are written. ATF being able to write regulations that become law is a different topic.

Hope this helps

Jim



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tenOCEE View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tenOCEE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 02 2019 at 9:43pm
What I understand is that if a receiver has been originally assembled as a rifle with barrel of legal rifle length it isn't legal to assemble it with a short barrel without an NFA form approval and tax plus permanent marking. You can risk using a receiver in the blocks made when a company was assembling pistol length, but it is a risk due to legality.

One way to get around the above concerns is to buy an NFA M2 trigger group (Get two. They're cheap). Once installed into a receiver it's now defined as a machinegun and you can shorten away with no stamp. You just can't remove the group and leave the shortened assembly. Not a cheap endeavor though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blackfish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 02 2019 at 5:00pm
Build a stock for it yourself (!) and turn it into a bullpup.

ONE HUNDRED PERCENT LEGAL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 02 2019 at 4:02pm
It may very well be perfectly legal to build an enforcer. They are bought-n-sold every day. I just know some ambulance-chaser would have a field day beating on you in court about a “sawed-off machine gun”.  Leaving the barrel alone and installing a folding stock seems okay. The overall legal rifle length is measured with the stock opened to it’s full length, as with a collapsible M4 stock. And, must have a 16” barrel of course, or it’s a SBR.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RClark9595 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 02 2019 at 3:00pm
This is  for information only for the time being, better to know in advance, than find out after all is said and done that I screwed up, possibly even fined or jail time if I used it for home defense.

Thanks for the info, that's one option off the table, that's a shame I liked the idea, I was thinking if I could buy the right gun with a damaged stock for a cheap price, I could turn it into something special, oh well, another idea turned sour, good to know.

Thanks
Ron

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 02 2019 at 2:26pm
What’s your SN range?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 02 2019 at 2:24pm
Anytime we start cutting barrels shorter than 16”, we get into SBR categories. The ATF continues to bird-dog the short barrel rifle issue and it’s getting pretty silly. Why they allow a “brace” I don’t know. It can be used just like a stock. Your mod may be completely legal now but not tomorrow and you could be forced to eventually apply for a tax stamp at $200.

I refused to pay the $200 extortion money and just got rid of my SBR’s and stopped trying to stay ahead of the SBR regulations.


I would go with a stock replacement and leave the barrel alone. Gen-1’s will drop right into a GI stock. Issues with Gen-2’s and 3’s seem to be problematic.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RClark9595 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 02 2019 at 1:52pm
Question: I know this thread is old, but, Is it legal to take (as we know it) a standard manufactured comercial carbine and cut off the stock and barrel to match the enforcer? Like; for instance if you have a broken/damaged stock but it could be made into a pistol?
Let me take it a little further with the same question, what if someone has access to a wood working machine shop, and they make for me a Paratrooper out of it. Of course if I were to sell either, I'd have to be up front from the beginning that this is a custom built one of a kind and was not a factory offered model.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 14 2018 at 10:20pm
All Right.......... Good Luck.

JP, Thanks for covering my 6, A Good Weekend to you

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BigBluezilla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 14 2018 at 10:06pm
Thanks gents! I scooped it up. Will report back once I have some news. Thanks again!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackp1028 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 14 2018 at 9:47pm
I'd go with 545370B while it's available. Let us know how it goes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 14 2018 at 9:08pm
I would think the best choice, plus if your done with it you could sell your current stock on Ebay..... but hang on to your hand guard.

Lets see what JP thinks, he's better schooled with these than I am.

Later,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BigBluezilla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 14 2018 at 9:04pm
Thanks Charlie. Yes, the one from Numrich 545370B. You guys thinking not a good choice?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 14 2018 at 8:57pm
Originally posted by BigBluezilla BigBluezilla wrote:

Thanks Painter. That second one looks like it would totally work!

Do you mean Numrich Product #: 545370B ?
The GI look alike for $129.95 ?

IMO Best I see from their choices. The ones with the medallions and or Monte Carlo cheek rests, to me wouldn't look right. But your call.
I'm with JP, and very leery of having to try to fit one.

I'll keep an eye out.

Good Luck
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackp1028 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 14 2018 at 8:18pm
I think you would be better off getting a Universal stock from Numrich. The Boyd stock was made for a GI style carbine. There are many more differences than just the opening for the trigger housing. The receiver opening is also different. The operating slide is wider so it probably will hit inside the fore stock. The bridge in front of the TH is different and will probably have to be modified or even removed. When I got a Gen II Universal I considered modifying a GI stock but decided not to after trying to actually fit the different assemblies into a GI stock. You may want to contact the seller and find out what other "MINOR fitting might be required." I suspect it will be more than "MINOR".
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