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The Good OL' Days

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Lupus Dei View Drop Down
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    Posted: Mar 04 2016 at 12:32am

March 2016-c

THE GOOD OL’ DAYS - GOOD, IF NOT GREAT CARBINES FOR $20 !

 
 

Between 1963 - 1967, the Director of Civilian Marksmanship (DCM) sold approximately 240,000 M1 Carbines to members of the National Rifle Association (NRA). Many of these were in mint, factory original configuration. They were declared “unserviceable” for a few reasons, including being surplus to the needs of the military at that time, government inefficiency, and if the carbine was missing the latest parts (rotary safety, bayonet lug, adjustable rear sight). Regardless of whether the carbines were in factory-original configuration or rebuilt, all were clean and in good working order. Although the $20 price was an incredible bargain and a wise investment at that time, we must keep this in historical perspective. The median annual income for American families in 1963 was $6200, or about $500 a month. That’s about $125 per week. And we must remember that carbines were not widely considered collectors’ items at that time. They were “plinkers” and small game hunting rifles. In 2015, the median annual income for American families was over $53,000. That’s more than $1000 per week…and that’s about what the average good rebuilt carbine sells for these days!

 

 

From the October 1964 issue of the NRA’s “American Rifleman” magazine (contributed by Louis Losi).

 
 

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote weimar_police Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 05 2016 at 1:04am
Nice info - I once saw and missed a sporter 'Mannlicher' style stock once, always thought that would be a cool non-perm mod

Ed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 05 2016 at 1:21am
Ed, I have a nice Mannlicher carbine stock for your if interested.
pm me if interested
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lupus Dei Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 28 2016 at 8:53pm
bayonet anyone?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m1a1fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 28 2016 at 9:25pm
I'll take the sporter version.  They come up for time to time for sale.  Nice to know what one is supposed to look like.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kar6666 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 30 2016 at 4:24pm
In 1963 I had just got out of high school and started my first job. I didn't know anything about the $20.00 carbines and also wasn't a member of the NRA then. At that time it was harder to get into the NRA then. At the time I needed a car more than a carbine. But if I had known about them I am sure I would have bought one. However I do have three that I bought from friends that were able to buy one in 1963.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 07 2016 at 8:05pm
In 1960, $20.00 = $162.60. In 1963, $20 = 157.29 in 2016 dollars. It just doesn't make any sense to pay the inflated prices asked for a great number of the Carbines on the market today.

Sad, isn't it? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kar6666 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 07 2016 at 11:45pm
I agree I was at a show last weekend and there was one carbine being walked around for sale. I heard the guy price it at a table for $1300.00. It was a early SG but was also a postwar rebuild. It was a good looking carbine but a long way from worth $1300.00. I just looked at it and walked on. The last time I was him he still was carrying it. What do you bet it went home with him. I didn't even make him a offer we were way to far apart.Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patrickduis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 13 2016 at 4:53pm
Nice topic, a carbine for 20 USD is good value......nowadays they go 2nd hand for 300-400 euro's in Holland.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m1a1fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 13 2016 at 5:18pm
Wise move kar, 1.3k for a mixer is crazy but I suppose it depends on the parts. I do the same thing as you. When the price is high but the "quality" is low, no reason to make an offer. I've heard the crazy stories from my dad about prices early on and the things ppl did to them.

For the price of two or three mixmasters, one could have something original. Not matter how one collects, there is always room to upgrade.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 14 2016 at 4:15pm
IMHO, There seems to be a fetish for USGI rifles. Those that pay a $1,300.00 premium for them are either collectors, or obsessed. Don't get me wrong, the USGI rifles are fine, but I doubt whether they are worth this kind of money. These rifles shoot fine in the field, but most owners of these units are buying these for preservation purposes.  

If you're going to pay those prices, the James River Armory (with their forged receivers and bolts) for $1250.00 will be more than satisfied with their performance in the field. You can pay the $1600+ for the Fulton Armory product, and have F/A name on their Carbine. (Which is all well and good). Rifles are, and were built to be carried, fired and enjoyed. The newer commercial Carbines from either company can, and should, be used extensively for both sporting and hunting purposes.

When Obama put the nix on the return of carbines to the CMP from the Pacific Rim, I stopped living in the past. This pushed the Carbines into the realms of the absurd. For me, they started to be manufactured from "unobtainium".

This is sad, but with the availability of such superb milled-steel versions of our beloved Carbine from these two high-end manufacturers, I won't miss them.    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cali201 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 14 2016 at 7:55pm
Originally posted by Captain O Captain O wrote:

IMHO, There seems to be a fetish for USGI rifles. Those that pay a $1,300.00 premium for them are either collectors, or obsessed.


Apparently you are out of touch with carbine USGI prices. I recently paid the most I have ever paid for a GI carbine when I purchased an extremely nice Standard Products for $1,000. Followed that a week later (3 weeks ago) with a Saginaw S.G. with 90% correct parts for $731 (although it did only have a high wood Underwood stock), both off of Gun Broker, my first GB purchases ever. Of the 15 GI carbines purchased the past 2 years the lowest was $475 for a Arl Ord marked Winchester 5.7, a great Inland for $500 and the rest inbetween up to the Std Pro mentioned above.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m1a1fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 14 2016 at 8:40pm
Lots of reasons to acquire a carbine:  Collecting, shooting/performance, investment/preserving.  Some combination of the previous.  All can be a source of enjoyment.  Nothing wrong with paying 1.3-1.6k for an F/A.  Could see a serious and/or match shooter dropping that kind of cash for one.  Lots of other options like CMP custom shop, a retired armorer custom build, build your own. etc....

Plenty of mixmaster supply. Plenty of commercial supply.  USGI supply will always be limited unless undiscovered original rifles surface.  Who knows what supply is out there waiting to be discovered. 

Wonder how many USGI rifles were sporterized back when they were practically giving them away?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 17 2016 at 4:03pm
I have seen all the old ads for the 5.7 Johnson Spitfire. The cartridge is a bit less powerful than the 5.56 x 45. I can't see the advantage of the Spitfire over the .30 Carbine, even in 1963.

But what do I know?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonjeep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 25 2017 at 5:35pm
I have a CMP carbine that was "sporterized" by the guy that got it from the CMP. He inlaid wood into the slingwell and oiler notch and then blued the metal. I think he also put a Hemphill adjustable sight on it. Glad it was saved, it's a 4-43 Rock-Ola, but it kinda ruins the collector value...!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 10 2021 at 5:35pm
Ron Dalhamer came up with this "Good Ol' Days" advertisement in Shot Gun News.
Only 25 years ago you could have an advanced collection!
Try not to drool over the prices, they are all long gone!

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/uploads/3657/GoodOlDays.jpg

Did you have to buy the lot of 50? Unhappy


Edited by New2brass - Feb 11 2021 at 11:04am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patrickduis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 11 2021 at 3:43am
Pretty expensive.
Last year I bought an Underwood (ex. Dutch ME police with yellow markings) for 200 euro's.
And I bought my I.B.M. for just 100 euro's.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 11 2021 at 11:29am
Patrick, I guess it is all about supply and demand. As I understand it there is a gross surplus of M1 carbines in Norway vs people buying them there.

So for 1996 in the USA $425 dollars was probably a lot of money for the average carbine, but to the collector there are many of interest in those lots

So using that there were 5 lots with a certain amount of each "collectable" in each batch there is an average number of each of these carbines available.

85 IP carbines of an estimated 31,000 made

47 X suffix of a possible 10,000 made. These were SG made for Inland that duplicated serial numbers

57 4 digit Inlands out of a possible 9,898

47 UnQuality carbines of an estimate of 7,500 made

12 Underwood lineouts. This one is difficult to figure without more info. There were an estimated 1450 that were sent to NPM and had the Underwood lined out. Underwood also sold receivers to Winchester after Underwood stopped production. These receivers had groups of receivers in various stages of completion. There were also complete receivers. Only some of these had the Underwood name lined out, and there were variations among these receivers such as Underwood Subcontract codes of B, W, T. A rough estimate of those would be around 9,500

So today there are collectors that search out variations like these, and there are other variations not listed in that advertisement.
It used to be that there would be a slight premium of those special carbines. Today there are more and more collectors of these and some of the prices will really make you scratch your head!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Donnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 11 2021 at 2:04pm
It is nostalgic and fun to look back at prices for milsurps and other firearms in the 60's and earlier. 

But, when i think of my wages back then I have to laugh. My first real job was as a H.S. kid working partime at McDonalds in 1968. I made a $1.00 and hour. Disapprove That jumped to a whopping $1.15 after i was there 6 months. Shocked  I don't miss that part of the good ol'days. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patrickduis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 11 2021 at 3:28pm
Yeah you are right back then I worked for about 4 dutch guilders an hour at my fathers agricultural equipment company.
I remember he earned about 800 guilders a months and the mortgage off the house (back then in the 70's the interest rate was about 10%) was 450 guilders.....from the rest we had to eat and the rest...
But we came by, and learned lots of things that way.
At least we were always there for each other, and we always ate what mother cooked, otherwise you went to bed hungry.....
Nowadays its different....they start out and want easy jobs like "youtuber" and "influencer", "manager" or just "do what you would really like to do", even if nobody is asking for jobs like that.
that was not the case in my times.
You either learned a craft, or a craft. Or otherwise: a craft so you could earn yourself a living.
Still glad I'm an experienced electrician! I make the light shine, everywhere!
.30M1: 1943 IBM 3x1943-1944 Inland 1943 Underwood
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1918 Eddystone M1917
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