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Rdrner383
Recruit Joined: Feb 27 2019 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 3 |
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Posted: Mar 01 2019 at 8:32am |
Recent purchase from a gun store, owner bought several from an estate sale. He thought they were CMP guns but had not come across paperwork. Gun (Saginaw 327xxxx) looks to be in good shape and updated with a birch lower stock, handguard is walnut. There has a very faint cartouche on the left, unreadable appears sanded, SCB in the slingwell and a clear Standard prod. stamp on the leftside in front of the slingwell. My questions are why would the cartouche have been sanded, I think the stock was made for IBM based on SCB and what years did Stand. prod. rebuild these guns. Other updates are a rotary safety and a bayonet band which makes me think post war rebuild. I'm new to this and trying to learn and any comments would be appreciated.
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tenOCEE
Hard Corps Knows rear sights! Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: East Tenn Status: Offline Points: 1330 |
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A faint cartouche on the left? What kinda cartouche? The Standard Products rebuild stamp is on the left also, yes? No circular crossed canons on the right side at all? A person can pay CMP $25 to check for release from them. They'll give some official reply but there may only be a 40-50 upside to doing that.
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jackp1028
Hard Corps Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Cloudcroft, NM Status: Offline Points: 1273 |
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Good morning and welcome to the Collector's forum from New Mexico!
Does your stock have the M2 selector cutout? Sprague and Carlton Co. is known for making wartime birch stocks. Post war "potbelly" birch stocks are most likely made by Springfield Armory. It would be great if we could see some pictures. |
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JackP
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Why Carbines?
Hard Corps Joined: Dec 27 2015 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 883 |
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If it's SCB then it's an IBM one. Sounds like it has a Standard Products rebuild stamp too.
Oops, I guess I should have read it better. I thought there was a delete post feature? |
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Rdrner383
Recruit Joined: Feb 27 2019 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 3 |
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The cartouche is on the right, I need to proof read better. There is not much detail other than a small circle and some protrusions that I'm assuming are the cannons. I took some pics but did not have any luck attaching them but I will work on that. Thanks
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jackp1028
Hard Corps Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Cloudcroft, NM Status: Offline Points: 1273 |
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The IBM CC is small, maybe 3/8" in diameter. Often closer to the grip than the oiler slot.
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JackP
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New2brass
Moderator Group Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4627 |
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rogerbock
Recruit Joined: Mar 08 2019 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 1 |
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I bought a 1943 IBM dated 1943. There is the number 23 stamped on the hand grip and I have not been able to find anything that references this. No need other marking anywhere on the stock. It is an arsenal weapon. Any Info will be greatly appreciated.
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W5USMC
Moderator Group Joined: Apr 29 2017 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 2949 |
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The 23 is most likely a "rack" number from an armory that the carbine was once stored in. |
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Wayne
USMC Retired NRA Life Member |
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m1a1fan
Hard Corps Got Para? Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 1736 |
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Welcome to the club to both of the new posters above.
Really enjoys IBM stocks, especially the ones made Sprague & Carleton Co. of Keene, NH for IBM. These stocks are my favorite. While we all would probably prefer a walnut RMC B I cut, they are much harder to find. When I first started collecting, wasn't a big fan of birch stocks. Now, my ears perk up when I see or hear about one. Just fantastic character in the grain. Any pictures of the sling well? |
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New2brass
Moderator Group Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4627 |
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Some info on Sprague & Charlton stocks
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BER911
Grunt Joined: Aug 04 2018 Location: Central VA Status: Offline Points: 314 |
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Welcome Aboard! I have a Rock-Ola with a replacement "Pot Belly" stock that was probably added during the post-war rebuild by Standard Products. It also has some markings on the underside of the stock and handgrip. As Wayne said, the "181" mark on the base of the handgrip is most likely a rack number. The "BU | 1" marks remain a mystery. |
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Semper Fi, Bruce
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New2brass
Moderator Group Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4627 |
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Far stretch thinking out loud:
B Unit Barracks U |
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W5USMC
Moderator Group Joined: Apr 29 2017 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 2949 |
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I also was thinking along those lines, the B could be any thing, Beach Master, Base, Battalion, Brigade ect.. with the U being Unit 1. All just speculation. |
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Wayne
USMC Retired NRA Life Member |
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BER911
Grunt Joined: Aug 04 2018 Location: Central VA Status: Offline Points: 314 |
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Dan/Wayne,
You guys missed your calling, you should have been forensic investigators! It does make sense that it is some kind unit designation. The next question is whether or not the carbine stayed in the USA, or was in some foreign country. Since there are no import marks, nor Bavarian marks, I have to assume this carbine spent its post-war life in this country. I wonder if CMP would have any history, since I bought it at a CMP auction last May? Might be worth sending them an email. |
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Semper Fi, Bruce
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tenOCEE
Hard Corps Knows rear sights! Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: East Tenn Status: Offline Points: 1330 |
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Don't forget those that didn't have to be import marked prior to 1968. I have a late Rockola that I'm told was bought as an import in the earlier 1960s by the seller's father. He's keeping a look out for the paperwork. Hope he finds it. I wonder what the percentage is of those that stayed home to those sent overseas?
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BER911
Grunt Joined: Aug 04 2018 Location: Central VA Status: Offline Points: 314 |
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Hum...good point. I forgot about the pre-1968 imports with no marks. |
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Semper Fi, Bruce
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