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68coupe 
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Joined: Oct 15 2019 Location: Pensacola, Fl Status: Offline Points: 22 |
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 Topic: Stock cleaningPosted: Jan 06 2020 at 5:28pm |
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I'd like to get a few opinions about what the preferred method of cleaning stocks from the carbon/gas deposits on the interior of the stock. I'd prefer that I not damage the finish/aging/patina on the exterior of the stock.
On a separate note, I have a rough M2 stock that needs a lot of love. Any recommendations on a full refinish?
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Karl, 68 coupe
NPM, 43 Universal, 80 Kahr 1827-A1 Thompson 2019 SA M1 Garand 42 AO 1911A1 Taurus PT1911 Beretta M92(compact) |
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floydthecat
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Joined: Oct 13 2016 Location: Mississippi Status: Offline Points: 1902 |
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Posted: Jan 06 2020 at 5:59pm |
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Members here have a few good options on the refinish. I took advice and recently re-worked an M14 stock with several scrubbings using Murphy's Oil Soap followed by several coats of turpentine-thinned raw linseed oil after it dried. Let each coat of RLS cure for 48-72 hours before subsequent applications.
Other recommendations and recipes likely work just as well. Lay the RLS on in thin coats until you achieve the desired affect. Too much and it takes forever to cure. I was pleased with my results. |
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mrguvna
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Posted: Jan 07 2020 at 9:04am |
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I have done the same thing as floydthecat with great success. BLO is easy to work with if you let it cure for a few days and only put on what the wood will soak up each time, wipe off excess.
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GH
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New2brass
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Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4417 |
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Posted: Jan 07 2020 at 1:23pm |
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RLO will remove the top layer of RLO and emulsify the dirt to clean it off and then new RLO can be applied. So it is a stripper (of itself) and a cleaner.
I have never used to remove carbon. I would give the wood a quick wipe with denatured or rubbing alcohol BLO will not remove the top layer of BLO. You cannot build up coats of BLO. BLO can chip and more difficult to touch up than RLO. I know some veterans state they used BLO in the service, However BLO was not the correct or recommended finish for any wooden stock on any firearm in any manual I have read. One good way to decrease the value of a collector stock is to put a finish other than RLO on it. It is your carbine and do as you wish.
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W5USMC
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Posted: Jan 07 2020 at 3:03pm |
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Wayne
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Why Carbines?
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Joined: Dec 27 2015 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 870 |
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Posted: Jan 09 2020 at 9:46am |
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When I first saw the above cartoon I kinda was like what ever, but after trying the method I was really surprised how well it works. BTW, I use straight RLO, sometimes heated other times right out of the bottle, it doesn't seen to make a big difference either way.
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floydthecat
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Posted: Jan 09 2020 at 5:27pm |
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I think there are 2 reasons why I thin mine with turpentine. I had read that recommendation somewhere when I was researching and my supply of RLO is very old, like years & years old...very thick.
The turpentine evaporates quickly and maybe it helps with penetration. In any event, it obviously works thinned or as-is. Whatever blows your skirt up I guess.
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m1a1fan
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Posted: Jan 09 2020 at 8:26pm |
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Haven't used the turpentine cutting method yet, but I think I'll give it a try. What %? 50/50?
Have used the hand rubbed RLO method and it seems to work well. Need to experiment to figure out the best way to preserve the wood without overdoing it.
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floydthecat
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Posted: Jan 10 2020 at 6:11am |
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I am thinking 50/50 may be too much and I just add some to thin the oil. Something like 25/75. I have seen various recipes, including a 33/33/33 oil, turpentine and bees wax. I would try it first on a spot inside the hand guard, or barrel channel. The turpentine serves as a carrier and will evaporate rather quickly. Just my suggestion, but I’d go with a 25/75. Just to add some info based on what I learned. BLO is not actually boiled. It contains additives that enhance it’s drying properties. RLO can be cut with various solvents like paint-thinner, turpentine, or mineral spirits and some formulas suggest a ratio of 2-to-1 thinner-to-oil. RLO alone is ok, but it takes a long time to cure. The thinners accelerate curing time.
Edited by floydthecat - Jan 10 2020 at 7:11am |
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Charles
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Joined: Mar 21 2016 Location: Maryland Status: Offline Points: 585 |
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Posted: Jan 10 2020 at 10:07am |
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We've been cleaning our kitchen cabinets and my (The Gift) M1 stock with Paraffin Oil for years , available in paint stores. It drys quickly and levies a light film that wipes off easily. It is amazing how much dirt it removes without harming the finish.
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Charles
Co B 1st Batl.115 Inf. Reg. 29th. Divi. 4.2 Heavy Mortar Co Retired Life member NRA |
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m1a1fan
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Posted: Jan 10 2020 at 3:50pm |
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@floyd - I've been trying 50/50. Will try 75/25. Thanks.
@Charles - Sorry we missed the last show. Just bad timing right after the holidays. Next time and thanks for the tip.
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Donnie
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Joined: May 31 2018 Location: Newburgh, IN Status: Offline Points: 335 |
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Posted: Jan 21 2020 at 9:16pm |
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If a light cleaning is needed on USGI stocks, I use denatured alcohol very sparingly. I did say sparingly. Too much and you can remove the rich patina. Just a little gets the grease, goo and gummy dirt off. I then massage some RLO into the wood. My stocks love me.
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Jamesicus
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Posted: Jan 22 2020 at 1:48pm |
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Yes, that is so.
In the case of carbines, during original WWII production stocks and hand guards were finished by immersion in raw linseed oil (cold pressed with no added chemicals) as approved by Ordnance (Carbine Committee). Subsequent Field Manuals and Supply catalogs therefor prescribed raw linseed oil. Some other thoughts: Raw linseed oil is intended to be applied very sparingly - just a few dabs here i and there, spread on the surface and well rubbed in by hand. The idea is to build up layers of cured (by oxydization rather than evaporation of drying additives). It seems that raw linseed oil has a bad reputation with many present day carbine collectors mainly due to its slow drying reputation - I have heard so many comments such as “it never completely dries” or “stocks treated with it are always sticky to the touch” …………… and so on. However, I believe that stocks that are maintained using raw linseed oil applied as outlined above do not possess those undesirable characteristics. It appears that sanding operations were a headache during carbine stock production - they involved a great deal of hand labor that slowed down production and coincidentally increased the cost of each unit. A reasonably good, easy to maintain, finish was the goal and so there was not a whole lot of fine sanding - from what I have read it seems that about 150 grit sandpaper (?) was used which produced a fine enough finish that possessed good oil absorption properties. Edited by Jamesicus - Jan 25 2020 at 11:29pm |
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Jamesicus
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Posted: Jan 22 2020 at 2:37pm |
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An afterthought:
I am not on a mission to “bash” boiled linseed oil, but here is a consideration: BLO is, of course, not really boiled - it is simply raw linseed oil that is modified by adding chemical drying agents some of which are quite toxic. Edited by Jamesicus - Jan 25 2020 at 8:39pm |
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New2brass
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Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4417 |
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Posted: Jan 22 2020 at 5:26pm |
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you sound fooled by them somehow being the same. They are not. Once the metallic additives are mixed it it acts differently.
You can put RLO over RLO. You can put BLO over RLO. You cannot put RLO over BLO You cannot put more BLO over polymerized BLO. You can try but it will just wipe off. That is the beauty of RLO, it can be built up. It can clean old RLO and dirt off as well as soften the top layer so a new layer will adhere. Key to faster drying with RLO is to wipe off excess so it is a very thin layer. Not all RLO is food grade.
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Jamesicus
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Posted: Jan 22 2020 at 6:39pm |
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Not fooled in my mind, but these days I occasionally seem to not express my thoughts very well - sorry. Added via edit: I messed up the above post - my mind drifted as I was writing it - old age malfunction I guess - I will try and concentrate and be more careful in the future (if I do post anymore that is).
Yes I agree - good comment.
Edited by Jamesicus - Jan 25 2020 at 8:45pm |
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68coupe
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Joined: Oct 15 2019 Location: Pensacola, Fl Status: Offline Points: 22 |
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Posted: Feb 19 2020 at 7:26pm |
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Finally got around to getting a QT of RLO. Moistened a rag and applied to my Carbine stock & hand guard. It not only removed the gunk but restored the luster to them. I'm very pleased with the results. As for the M2 stock, as I stated in the original post, it needs a LOT of love. I'm sort of pleased with the results there, but many more coats will be required to get it even close to the desired finish. More to follow...
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Karl, 68 coupe
NPM, 43 Universal, 80 Kahr 1827-A1 Thompson 2019 SA M1 Garand 42 AO 1911A1 Taurus PT1911 Beretta M92(compact) |
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Charles
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Posted: Feb 20 2020 at 9:21am |
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There has been a lot of good advise given but has not addressed the original question , cleaning the interior of the stock except one, Scrubbing the barrel channel with Murphy Oil Soap.
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Charles
Co B 1st Batl.115 Inf. Reg. 29th. Divi. 4.2 Heavy Mortar Co Retired Life member NRA |
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New2brass
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Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4417 |
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Posted: Feb 20 2020 at 11:41am |
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toothbrush!
It is an interesting question considering how stocks originally had the RLO applied.
Springfield armory traditionally dipped stock into a vat of RLO for a period of time and then wiped them down. Overton saw the issue with rag disposal. The would dip the stocks for a period of time and then move them to racks where they dried eliminating wiping them down. I do not know what other manufactures did. but observations it seems the inside and under the buttplate seem to be absent finish. One theory is that over time the oil evaporated. My thought would be the open grain and rough finish would soak up more oil. Then there is the fact that the oil polymerizes. Would it be possible it evaporates? Anyway the point of all that is if it appears to have a finish I would just used RLO. If not I would try a barely damp rag to wipe it down. Too much moisture will raise the grain! This goes against all my professing of keeping water away from collector stocks! Again from my perspective as a collector I would leave the stocks alone as much as possible. For a mixmaster or a well used carbine have at it. I am not crazy of any solvent on wood as over time the cellulose in the wood may break down. I have heard of using vinegar but never tried it and concerned about putting mild acid on the stock. If I did I would wait a few days for it to evaporate so it does not affect the metal. Hoppes no. 9 removes gunpowder residue but it may darken the wood due to the oil/preservative content. Ballistol is slightly alkaline and emulsifies with water (damp rag cleanup) I would think safer than vinegar. They claim safe on leather, wood, and rubber. It like Hoppes leaves a thin film. |
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Jamesicus
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RIP Joined: Jan 21 2020 Location: Tucson AZ Status: Offline Points: 89 |
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Posted: Feb 20 2020 at 12:43pm |
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I will try and redeem myself after my first shaky post. I really just wanted to note how we cleaned and maintained our Carbines during my tenure as NCOIC of a Base Small Arms Marksmanship Training Unit (SAMTU) & Firing Range at a USAF overseas Base during the late 1950s and early 1960s when the US Cal. 30 Carbine was used for annual marksmanship training and qualification firing by enlisted personnel.
All of our Firing Range carbines were post-WWII rebuilds. We had a substantial inventory of carbines - I cannot remember the exact number (it has been so long ago) - but sufficient to allow frequent rotation in order to provide carbines in optimum condition for each day's training and qualification firing. The great majority were M1 models although we did have several M2 (semi-automatic/automatic select fire) models that we used for Security Police/Marksmanship Instructor training and qualification firing. My Range Instructor staff (normally consisting of about three NCOs and four Airmen - variable due to overseas assignment rotation) conducted annual Marksmanship training and qualification firing for Base enlisted personnel usually five days per week (morning and aftertnoon relays - Monday through Friday) almost every week of the year. CLEANING and LUBRICATION After annual qualification firing, relays were routed to the range classroom where each individual was required to disassemble (field strip), clean, lubricate and re-assemble the carbines they had just fired IAW the provisions of FM 23-7/AFM 50-4, January 1952 and under the supervision of Small Arms Marksmanship Instructors. Disassembly - into major groups: Barrel and Receiver, Trigger Housing, Operating Slide, Bolt, Stock and Handguard. Cleaning & Lubrication - all metal parts (including bore) were cleaned and lubricated using cleaner, rifle bore and oil, lubricating, preservative, special.. Assembly - groups were re-assembled in reverse order and carbine exterior wiped down using soft dry rags. Stock and handguard maintenance - Oil, linseed, raw was applied to wood as determined by Small Arms Marksmanship Instructors. Edited by Jamesicus - Feb 24 2020 at 9:50pm |
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m1a1fan wrote: