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STD PRO Type I rear sight marking

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carbinecanuck View Drop Down
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    Posted: Feb 09 2018 at 2:19pm
I have the opportunity to pick up what looks to be a factory correct example of a Standard Products carbine, serial number 2018758.

One concern I have with it, is the 'S' marking on the rear sight. I already have in my possesion a type I flip sight with a square 'S', and it looks quite different to the example I see on this STD PRO.

Could I get some thoughts from members on whether or not the sight is real, or possibly a fake.

Kind regards -TT



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Dave Tennent View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave Tennent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 10 2018 at 1:21pm
TT, here's a photo of my STD PRO rear sight. Looks the same to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave Tennent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 10 2018 at 1:33pm
I stand corrected my photo matches your original sight, not the one on the carbine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbinecanuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 10 2018 at 5:42pm
Thanks for sharing Dave.

Yes I would like to know if that style that is shown on your STD PRO carbine flip sight base, is the way all the square 'S' markings looked. Or if there maybe be slightly different versions.

Or maybe the one on the carbine I am looking to purchase was struck lighter?

Seems to be a subtle difference there, to my eyes.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lupus Dei Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 10 2018 at 6:02pm
As you can see the top picture is now unavailable.
Photobucket did disservice to future research as many threads across the internet are now useless.
 
Imgur the photos will expire.
 
If possible please use your storage here to post pictures otherwise in the future the thread becomes useless.
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carbinecanuck View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbinecanuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 10 2018 at 7:46pm
My apologies. Image is back up again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sfal7418 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 11 2018 at 6:31am
here is mine sn....2003520...
al
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbinecanuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 11 2018 at 11:35am
Thanks Al. Nice example of the 'S', sans serifs, on your carbine.

I see in my collectors reference that both the square 'S' and 'S' sans serifs were used on the Standard products up to serial number range 2.21 million.

It would be great to see other versions of the square 'S' on other carbines, regardless of what manufacturer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 11 2018 at 2:17pm
Lyman Gun Sight Corporation was the one that manufactured the sight with the square S
The S is from the word Sinister meaning left. the sights are taper fit so the S on left would be inserted from right side of receiver and moved left. The S belongs on the left.

Sinister: a of, relating to, or situated to the left or on the left side of something; especially being or relating to the side of a heraldic shield at the left of the person bearing it
b of ill omen by reason of being on the left

The other S marked sights usually had other markings to distinguish who made them so I would expect to see different curves S marks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbinecanuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 11 2018 at 2:50pm
Thanks for that insight.

So then I can safely assume that all the square 'S' sight markings should be pretty well identical. With some variation due to imperfections during original application or deterioration due to use.

I am currently trying to obtain pictures that allow closer inspection. But does anyone else happen to notice a slight difference in the pictures provided of the known genuine examples and the STD PRO carbine in question? Or am I seeing something that is not there?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbinecanuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 11 2018 at 2:57pm
Below is a view of the right side of the rear sight.

Its location in the dovetail also leaves me questioning the originality of the sight to this carbine.

Thoughts?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 11 2018 at 3:19pm
If you look at left side dovetail you see the original stake marks. Seems most rear sights are to the left of center. It might be that it moved to right or someone moved it. It could be that someone replaced it.
Look closely at right side of dovetail for any marks to figure where a sight originally sat.
 
here is a pic of an old post I had on CMP that was hosted by Photobucket. If it is still there, as Louis said, it is now useless. Cry
 
think it is only a comparison of two sights taken from the thread that were offered at different angle.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbinecanuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 11 2018 at 5:35pm
I initially thought that was a stake mark to the left of the sight, but zooming in on the picture, I later noticed that it is actually the spring. I have requested photos that will show any stake marks to get a better sense of original positioning. Will share when I receive them.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 11 2018 at 8:00pm
I was referring to the peen over of the dovetail on left side. Look up at Dave's and you will see the same peening on end of dovetail. I bet there are marks under where the sight base is sitting
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbinecanuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 11 2018 at 8:16pm
Ok. I see what you mean. Here are a few more photos. Still do not see any obvious staking marks. Possibly a hint of them at the back of the base in the first picture? Must be under the base as you say.

So original sights may have been potentially removed and replaced. Is that looking like a safe assumption?





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 12 2018 at 1:43pm
 
Is it me or does the square S look squarer in new pictures? Funny what a photo can do
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbinecanuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 12 2018 at 2:20pm
I completely agree. The straight on, closer perspective makes the square S look much more genuinely original.

I did take note of those marks as well in that picture. After questioning the seller, he has confirmed that he moved the sight to the right himself, to correct for windage that was out when he was shooting.

Would it be common for a rear flip sight staked in its original position, to be significantly out in respect to windage?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m1a1fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 12 2018 at 9:22pm
Something going on with the right rear side of the dovetail. Pics are blurry, but looks like discolorations and shiny areas. Some kind of shiny circular mark in the same area.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbinecanuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 12 2018 at 9:49pm
I keep looking at the receiver, and can't decide whether it is faded original parkerizing there or if it has been refinished. The STD.PRO. and serial number looks a bit fuzzy to me ...as if it has been sandblasted.

Should the markings be more crisp if it is original finish?

I know the couple examples I have of receivers with original parkerizing show very crisp font and numbers.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave Tennent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 13 2018 at 8:06pm
The first things that I look at on a carbine for sale after the manufacturer of course, are the rear sight base dovetail and rear sight pin. Perfectly placed chisel staking on the dovetail is a good indication of an unmolested rear sight. Conversely, too much wear and tear on the dove tail or partially hidden craters are red flags. The rear sight pin should also appear unmolested. If the rear sight passes inspection then I move on the the front sight, looking for sight removal scratches or sight pin problems. I've learned the hard way and I've also learned to walk away. If you take a chance on that carbine and swap out the questionable rear sight with a real one, that carbine will always end up in the "restored" category. Here's a photo of what you want to see. By the way, I like them dirty too.
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