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(SOLD)Tool Room #20 for sale |
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wright 
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Joined: Jan 16 2016 Location: waynesburg,pa Status: Offline Points: 8 |
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 Topic: (SOLD)Tool Room #20 for salePosted: May 27 2016 at 9:11am |
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For Sale: I have tool room model US M1 Carbine serial number 20
that I am interested in selling to a serious collector. This carbine is the subject of a detailed description in Issue #173 , March 1 1991, of the Carbine Club newsletter. The club estimated the value in 2012 to be about 15k,I am seeking the best offer. This carbine is in the Richard Wright collection who was a member and contributor to the Carbine Club. Richard passed in January and I am his brother and the executor of his estate, P.J. Wright.
Edited by New2brass - Aug 08 2021 at 11:54am |
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David Albert
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Status Quo Challenger Joined: Dec 27 2015 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 1003 |
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Posted: May 27 2016 at 11:05pm |
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Naturally, we would love to see some photos of this special Carbine here on the board, if possible. I will be at a meeting of the American Society of Arms Collectors in Chattanooga next weekend, and you never know who might be looking for something like this to add to their collection. Having the photos available online could help.
Thanks! David Albert dalbert@sturmgewehr.com |
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NRA Life Member
Past Pres., The American Thompson Association Amer. Society of Arms Collectors OGCA/TCA/Carbine Club/GCA/IAA SAR Writer Author - The Many Firearm Designs of Eugene Reising Eagle Scout |
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Wrdsmth
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Joined: Jun 23 2016 Location: Minnesota Status: Offline Points: 29 |
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Posted: Jul 01 2016 at 10:07pm |
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Inland Tool Room #17 was sold recently - Here is the ad for that one: http://www.rockislandauction.com/viewitem/aid/51/lid/3621
IBM Tool Room #23 also recently changed hands - Here is the ad for that rifle: http://www.icollector.com/Rare-Tool-Room-or-Preproduction-WWII-IBM-M1-Carbine_i9966908 |
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Lupus Dei
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Club Secretary Emeritus Joined: Nov 09 2015 Location: CCC Status: Offline Points: 1417 |
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Posted: Jul 01 2016 at 11:02pm |
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Neither of the carbines which you link are tool room models.
Read the RIA auction carefully and you may figure what it really is. IBM may have issues.......So I am not condemning yet...... Quiz time Anyone have an opinion on the IBM?
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New2brass
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Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4660 |
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Posted: Jul 02 2016 at 12:00am |
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Tool room 17 and 18 and a few other tool rooms were mentioned in a newsletter (can anyone cite newsletter?)
As PJ stated this one was in CCNL 173 |
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Miata Mike
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Joined: Mar 06 2016 Location: NE Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Posted: Jul 02 2016 at 6:12am |
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I'm going to guess it is the 10-43 dated barrel when reported production started in August? |
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m1a1fan
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Got Para? Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 1736 |
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Posted: Jul 02 2016 at 8:57am |
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An IBM tool room carbine making a trip to the UW arsenal?
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sleeplessnashadow
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Joined: Nov 09 2015 Location: SoCal Status: Offline Points: 1150 |
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Posted: Jul 16 2016 at 7:44pm |
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I don't know if this is the case with this IBM carbine, but a number of prototypes, tool room and other historical pieces made their way onto assembly lines. Some eventually going through a rebuild operation.
Others, including the original two Winchester prototypes, were used as a platform for ongoing research. Some more than others. And as usual, many have passed into the hands of owners who have no idea what they have. They just want an M1 Carbine. A lot of possibilities. I'm trying to remember if some of them also ended up as presentation carbines. Which newsletter those two tool room carbines were in would be a question for Marty. Neither are in the indexes. |
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Lupus Dei
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Club Secretary Emeritus Joined: Nov 09 2015 Location: CCC Status: Offline Points: 1417 |
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Posted: Jul 17 2016 at 12:23am |
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IBM received its contract in January 1943 and geared up for production. Clearly they were making parts before August 43 as we see dated barrels of 7-43 till 12-43 and after that undated. IBM however completed the first 5000 in August 43 IBM had a hand in revolutionizing barrel manufacturing, for more see War Baby 485. So if the x43 was a tool room for IBM I would guess it would have an early barrel. Then again it could have been switched out. Next notice the front ring has been ground down. Most likely to remove makings. Why remove markings for a tool room? Shame it did not show the rear of receiver. If it was a presentation carbine if would not have the stock which it now wears. If changed by the owner of the time they destroyed its history. It is however possible that it was a tool room receiver which was later pushed into service like Sleepless states. Also notice the number is engraved not stamped. Bottom line I have no good feelings on that one. The XC17 description is only partially correct. There may have been tool room models which were later made into presentation guns. I do not believe the "XC" series were ever tool room models. Rather receivers which were pulled from production and made into presentation guns. Clearly the presence of a type two barrel band shows it was later in production when it was assembled. We know Inland made prototypes 1-5 and Winchester 6-10. 11 through 99 are the tool room models with production for the troops starting at 100. We have found 2 digit serial numbers that have been pressed into service at some point. this is evident with Inland 18 which is the most famous as it was in the early manuals. 18 is owned by a member and has seen action! So this is why the tool room # 20 commands a premium, far greater then a "Presentation Gun" It is also my understanding that #20 has been sold. I will also say that there are fake presentations out there, so do your homework first! |
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Louis Dey
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sleeplessnashadow
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Joined: Nov 09 2015 Location: SoCal Status: Offline Points: 1150 |
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Posted: Jul 17 2016 at 12:50am |
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I'm real big on evidence to back up any claims. For those who own them I hope they do a good job of keeping whatever documents they can lay hands on.
Jim |
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wmmwraghd
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Joined: Jan 16 2016 Location: Dallas,Tx Status: Offline Points: 46 |
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Posted: Dec 13 2016 at 7:29pm |
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New your brother well, spent many hours with him at the Houston Astrohall show. Richard help me start collecting carbines in the very early eighties. Richard was one of the old guard collectors that I had the honor of knowing. To any advanced collectors out there Inland #20s the real deal.
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Lupus Dei wrote: