Click on the image above to learn more about the M1 Carbine
|
Saginaw S'G' |
Post Reply | Page <1 2345> |
Author | ||
David Albert
Hard Corps Status Quo Challenger Joined: Dec 27 2015 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 1003 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
The analysis done here is all good, and I agree that some of the markings indicate a year and date.
I also think sometimes we over-analyze these types of things. It's not a bad thing. We are collectors, and we want to learn as much as we can about the history of something that we love, but that can't talk back to us. So, we go down the trails that are presented... I can offer 2 examples. With Thompson Submachine Guns of the Colt, and the WWII era, as well as H&R Model 65 .22 rifles (USMC M1 Trainers), markings are found under the buttplate, which usually correspond to a marking on the stock. They were stamped in this manner because they had to be hand fitted to match the exact contour of the back of the buttstock. Some folks mistake the markings to mean that their parts are mismatched from their firearm serial number, but the markings were simply a way for parts to be reunited with their mate, after they were separated during the production process. Markings can be permanent, or temporary, as long as they outlived their production purpose. I'm certain that with different Carbine manufacturers, there were probably different practices in this regard. I'm not aware of any government specification that called out markings such as have been discussed here, so it was almost certainly based on production preferences and practices that differed at each supplier. The markings could represent units within a batch, or processed by a shift and date, or they could just be from a predetermined range that was prescribed by management to be used that day, week, or month, and made sense to Joe Manager at the time. My point is that we may figure some of this out, and we may not. We may try too hard to make it make sense. But that's part of the fun... David Albert dalbert@sturmgewehr.com |
||
NRA Life Member
Past Pres., The American Thompson Association Amer. Society of Arms Collectors OGCA/TCA/Carbine Club/GCA/IAA SAR Writer Author - The Many Firearm Designs of Eugene Reising Eagle Scout |
||
Rcycles45
On Point Joined: Dec 27 2015 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 163 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I like the dents ! Shows the stock has some character . |
||
m1a1fan
Hard Corps Got Para? Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 1736 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I find it difficult to purchase dentless carbines. I spose it depends on why the stock has no or few dents. Have yet to cause any dents but scratches were a problem early on. Have an appreciation for the occasional gouge here and there. Try to draw the line at cracks but sometimes unavoidable based on scarcity. Sandpaper on a carbine stock is like nails on a chalkboard. Carbine character is priceless. JMO. |
||
tenOCEE
Hard Corps Knows rear sights! Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: East Tenn Status: Offline Points: 1330 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
There are 2-3 IR-IP I cut stocks around here, but I'm not so sure they have that strong of a look to them that's comparable to that one? One of mine is even proofed IP with crossed cannon. It's cut to low wood, .U. rebuild stamped and also has an NPM serial number stamped on the left side that matched the Carbine I took it off of, which was import marked as they all were when stamped on the left side. There are no numbers seen in the channel. But there are two small holes in the sling cut where some sort of tag/badge was once attached. I've read it stated that there were no IP proofed stocks since they were never accepted, but this one will convince you that there were IP stamped stocks. Got an oval SG stamped stock (not an S'G'), totally unmessed with that has identical milling to the IP I cut, but the SG has numbers stamped in the slide channel. |
||
m1a1fan
Hard Corps Got Para? Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 1736 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Great point ten, didn't think of including SG stocks in the mix, There are IP proofed stocks. Also have seen stocks with both IP and S' proofs. Both the former and the latter were marked IR-IP in the sling well.
Update to include tens SG (correct me if my understanding is wrong). Anyone else has an SG stock, please let us know. S' I Cut (IR-IP) - No stamp S' I Cut (RSG) - No stamp S' Oval Cut (RSG) - Stamp SG Oval Cut (small RSG upside down with other characters) - Stamp IP I Cut (IR-IP) - No stamp |
||
tenOCEE
Hard Corps Knows rear sights! Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: East Tenn Status: Offline Points: 1330 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
IP I Cut (IR-IP) No stamp
SG Oval cut (small RSG upside down with other characters) Stamp Below is the Saginaw SG stock. Appears to be a 5 digit number like the S'G' stock not shown. Maybe it's 222xxx, 226xx or 227xx? Heck, I can't tell. |
||
m1a1fan
Hard Corps Got Para? Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 1736 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Great pics. SG stock looks like 223xxx. Noticing some subtle differences between the milling of the stocks, but the "finish" cuts are unmistakable. I do know know the timing of when each example was made, but it's nice to see them lined up like ducks in a row. And let's not forget about the slings....Nice!
Interesting that the IP and S' ledge look like the same thickness whereas the SG is thinner. |
||
tenOCEE
Hard Corps Knows rear sights! Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: East Tenn Status: Offline Points: 1330 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
|
|
SG is a bit thinner. There's something else. Note the notch cut at the arrow. The SG has a larger one. The S'G' has a smaller one. The IP has none at all.
|
||
tenOCEE
Hard Corps Knows rear sights! Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: East Tenn Status: Offline Points: 1330 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Hope this isn't too much of a deviation, because I can't tell you where this stock came from. High wood, oval cut, type I band marks. Didn't know I had it. No cartouche on the right. Also, has no notch.
|
||
m1a1fan
Hard Corps Got Para? Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 1736 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Wonder the purpose of those notches? Seems like a change since I would think the IP is the earliest of the stocks.
Will try and find some other examples and check for the modification. Seems like someone was trying to track something in later stocks. Maybe Julian date and heat lots or internal tracking numbers. Doesn't help that the entire number is hard to read. |
||
Charles
Grunt Joined: Mar 21 2016 Location: Maryland Status: Offline Points: 587 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
http://www.wood-carver.com/gunstock.html
Perhaps this web site will explain how that extra gouge could happen. Of corce M1 stocks where done many at a time. Copy and paste to see. |
||
gene of oregon
Grunt Joined: Jan 23 2016 Location: silverton, or Status: Offline Points: 157 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Here's an S'G' for sale on the CMP forum. Has the ink marks, they are more visible than mine. Are these stamped or hand written??
http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=198509 |
||
m1a1fan
Hard Corps Got Para? Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 1736 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
They looked stamped to me. Some appear crisper than others. The ink may have bled after all these years.
|
||
New2brass
Moderator Group Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4627 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
clearly stamped, however it may be individually stamped or a "Gerry Rigged" setup .
Sometimes they do not appear lined up and one of the pictures in this thread show two font sizes in same stamp
|
||
Car Wash Chris
Grunt Joined: Dec 27 2015 Location: Dayton,Ohio Status: Offline Points: 161 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
This is the best one I have.
Maybe 26230 ??? |
||
New2brass
Moderator Group Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4627 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
i see 26210 look at spacing and the 2. I would think 3 would be similar spacing
|
||
Car Wash Chris
Grunt Joined: Dec 27 2015 Location: Dayton,Ohio Status: Offline Points: 161 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Could be .
|
||
Car Wash Chris
Grunt Joined: Dec 27 2015 Location: Dayton,Ohio Status: Offline Points: 161 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I blew it up and you have convinced me it's a 1 so 26210 looks right, wonder what it means ??? LOL |
||
gene of oregon
Grunt Joined: Jan 23 2016 Location: silverton, or Status: Offline Points: 157 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Just picked up another S'G' stock been repaired and high/wood cut down to low wood Here's a pic of the barrel channel ink stamp 22220
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipMlxxcJttjPsmZ3nA4cygkujnSrnuX7qwaeH6ipARJP4be_HfC1BLTAuMcSETkP3A?key=WWxBb2lhNk5VcmZ3RVNnNlB2TWZpclNUaFJSTmdn |
||
The flag does not fly because of the wind that blows it. The flag flies because each soldier's last breath blows by it!
|
||
m1a1fan
Hard Corps Got Para? Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 1736 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Sounds like a potential lottery number play. That's a lot of 2's.
|
||
Post Reply | Page <1 2345> |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You can vote in polls in this forum |