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Saginaw S'G'

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David Albert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2016 at 6:53pm
The analysis done here is all good, and I agree that some of the markings indicate a year and date.

I also think sometimes we over-analyze these types of things. It's not a bad thing. We are collectors, and we want to learn as much as we can about the history of something that we love, but that can't talk back to us. So, we go down the trails that are presented...

I can offer 2 examples.

With Thompson Submachine Guns of the Colt, and the WWII era, as well as H&R Model 65 .22 rifles (USMC M1 Trainers), markings are found under the buttplate, which usually correspond to a marking on the stock. They were stamped in this manner because they had to be hand fitted to match the exact contour of the back of the buttstock. Some folks mistake the markings to mean that their parts are mismatched from their firearm serial number, but the markings were simply a way for parts to be reunited with their mate, after they were separated during the production process.

Markings can be permanent, or temporary, as long as they outlived their production purpose. I'm certain that with different Carbine manufacturers, there were probably different practices in this regard. I'm not aware of any government specification that called out markings such as have been discussed here, so it was almost certainly based on production preferences and practices that differed at each supplier. The markings could represent units within a batch, or processed by a shift and date, or they could just be from a predetermined range that was prescribed by management to be used that day, week, or month, and made sense to Joe Manager at the time.

My point is that we may figure some of this out, and we may not. We may try too hard to make it make sense. But that's part of the fun...

David Albert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rcycles45 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2016 at 8:40pm
Originally posted by m1a1fan m1a1fan wrote:

Didn't even notice it. Have many dents. Can't bring myself to change anything but don't have the necessary woodworking skills anyway.


I like the dents ! Shows the stock has some character .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m1a1fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2016 at 9:22pm
Originally posted by Rcycles45 Rcycles45 wrote:

Originally posted by m1a1fan m1a1fan wrote:

Didn't even notice it. Have many dents. Can't bring myself to change anything but don't have the necessary woodworking skills anyway.


I like the dents ! Shows the stock has some character .


I find it difficult to purchase dentless carbines. I spose it depends on why the stock has no or few dents.   Have yet to cause any dents but scratches were a problem early on. Have an appreciation for the occasional gouge here and there. Try to draw the line at cracks but sometimes unavoidable based on scarcity. Sandpaper on a carbine stock is like nails on a chalkboard. Carbine character is priceless. JMO.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tenOCEE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 26 2016 at 10:09pm
Originally posted by m1a1fan m1a1fan wrote:

Here's a shot of an I cut S' stock on an IP.  The other one I've seen looks similar.  Both have a unique machining mark left in the same area.




There are 2-3 IR-IP I cut stocks around here, but I'm not so sure they have that strong of a look to them that's comparable to that one? One of mine is even proofed IP with crossed cannon. It's cut to low wood, .U. rebuild stamped and also has an NPM serial number stamped on the left side that matched the Carbine I took it off of, which was import marked as they all were when stamped on the left side. There are no numbers seen in the channel. But there are two small holes in the sling cut where some sort of tag/badge was once attached. I've read it stated that there were no IP proofed stocks since they were never accepted, but this one will convince you that there were IP stamped stocks.

Got an oval SG stamped stock (not an S'G'), totally unmessed with that has identical milling to the IP I cut, but the SG has numbers stamped in the slide channel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m1a1fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 27 2016 at 4:58pm
Great point ten, didn't think of including SG stocks in the mix, There are IP proofed stocks. Also have seen stocks with both IP and S' proofs. Both the former and the latter were marked IR-IP in the sling well.

Update to include tens SG (correct me if my understanding is wrong). Anyone else has an SG stock, please let us know.

S' I Cut (IR-IP) - No stamp
S' I Cut (RSG) - No stamp
S' Oval Cut (RSG) - Stamp
SG Oval Cut (small RSG upside down with other characters) - Stamp
IP I Cut (IR-IP) - No stamp
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tenOCEE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 27 2016 at 8:35pm
IP I Cut (IR-IP) No stamp
SG Oval cut (small RSG upside down with other characters) Stamp




Below is the Saginaw SG stock. Appears to be a 5 digit number like the S'G' stock not shown. Maybe it's 222xxx, 226xx or 227xx? Heck, I can't tell.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m1a1fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 27 2016 at 8:57pm
Great pics. SG stock looks like 223xxx. Noticing some subtle differences between the milling of the stocks, but the "finish" cuts are unmistakable. I do know know the timing of when each example was made, but it's nice to see them lined up like ducks in a row. And let's not forget about the slings....Nice!

Interesting that the IP and S' ledge look like the same thickness whereas the SG is thinner.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote tenOCEE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 27 2016 at 9:13pm
SG is a bit thinner. There's something else. Note the notch cut at the arrow. The SG has a larger one. The S'G' has a smaller one. The IP has none at all.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tenOCEE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 27 2016 at 9:26pm
Hope this isn't too much of a deviation, because I can't tell you where this stock came from. High wood, oval cut, type I band marks. Didn't know I had it. No cartouche on the right. Also, has no notch.






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m1a1fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 28 2016 at 9:17pm
Wonder the purpose of those notches? Seems like a change since I would think the IP is the earliest of the stocks.

Will try and find some other examples and check for the modification.

Seems like someone was trying to track something in later stocks.  Maybe Julian date and heat lots or internal tracking numbers.  Doesn't help that the entire number is hard to read.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 29 2016 at 11:27am
http://www.wood-carver.com/gunstock.html

Perhaps this web site will explain how that extra gouge could happen.
Of corce  M1 stocks where done many at a time.
Copy and paste to see.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gene of oregon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 09 2016 at 4:40pm
Here's an S'G' for sale on the CMP forum. Has the ink marks, they are more visible than mine. Are these stamped or hand written??

http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=198509
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m1a1fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 10 2016 at 6:20pm
They looked stamped to me.  Some appear crisper than others.  The ink may have bled after all these years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 10 2016 at 7:18pm
clearly stamped, however it may be individually stamped or a "Gerry Rigged" setup .
Sometimes they do not appear lined up and one of the pictures in this thread show two font sizes in same stamp
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Car Wash Chris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 10 2016 at 8:22pm
This is the best one I have.

Maybe 26230 ???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 10 2016 at 8:24pm
i see 26210 look at spacing and the 2. I would think 3 would be similar spacing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Car Wash Chris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 10 2016 at 8:27pm
Could be .   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Car Wash Chris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 11 2016 at 3:35pm
Originally posted by New2brass New2brass wrote:

i see 26210 look at spacing and the 2. I would think 3 would be similar spacing



I blew it up and you have convinced me it's a 1 so 26210 looks right, wonder what it means ??? LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gene of oregon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 13 2017 at 7:15pm
Just picked up another S'G' stock been repaired and high/wood cut down to low wood Here's a pic of the barrel channel ink stamp 22220





https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipMlxxcJttjPsmZ3nA4cygkujnSrnuX7qwaeH6ipARJP4be_HfC1BLTAuMcSETkP3A?key=WWxBb2lhNk5VcmZ3RVNnNlB2TWZpclNUaFJSTmdn
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m1a1fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 13 2017 at 7:19pm
Sounds like a potential lottery number play. That's a lot of 2's.
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