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Saginaw S'G'

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m1a1fan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m1a1fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2016 at 9:55pm
Here's a shot of an I cut S' stock on an IP.  The other one I've seen looks similar.  Both have a unique machining mark left in the same area.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gene of oregon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2016 at 10:50pm
I agree with New2Brass (If inspector marks I would think we would see a smaller range of numbers.) Other than id'ing, inspection or tracking would a manufacture want to spend time marking an item??

The flag does not fly because of the wind that blows it. The flag flies because each soldier's last breath blows by it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m1a1fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2016 at 8:21pm
If by hand, sounds like a paint. Maybe done by machine? Do we have an idea of serial number range? It's Inland and S' so far, I think.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gene of oregon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2016 at 9:06am
No idea the serial# range, no metal other than the band spring. I really don't think it's done with paint. Maybe a grease pencil? What other types of hand writing devises were used back then in manufacturing?? A little before my time.   I'm going to be out of town for a few weeks, when I get back a friend who is into photography a little said he'd come by and maybe get a clear pic or two?
The flag does not fly because of the wind that blows it. The flag flies because each soldier's last breath blows by it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rcycles45 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2016 at 7:23pm
Originally posted by m1a1fan m1a1fan wrote:

Here's a shot of an I cut S' stock on an IP.  The other one I've seen looks similar.  Both have a unique machining mark left in the same area.



I have 4 I-cut S'G' stocks 1 is marked RSG in slingwell and 3 are marked IR-IP and they all have the same unique machine markings as yours , and none of these have the Julian markings in barrel chamber ..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m1a1fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2016 at 8:18pm
Both of mine are also marked IR-IP in sling well.  Wonder if IP I cut or IP S' stocks have the same unique machining marks?  The things one notices attempting to learn more about what they collect.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PingCMP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2016 at 10:15pm
Originally posted by Car Wash Chris Car Wash Chris wrote:

The type 2 { oval cut highwood } stocks, marked RSG in the sling well with the sideways S'G' were made by Rock-Ola. So far at least in this discussion these are the only one's that exhibit the 5 digit ink stamp.   


FWIW, the stock (with ink stamp, pictured earlier) on my 1.871xxx S'G' is a type II with the RMC stamp in the slingwell.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m1a1fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2016 at 11:27pm
So far

S' I Cut (IR-IP) - No stamp
S' I Cut (RSG) - No stamp
S' Oval Cut (RSG) - Stamp
S' oval cut - ?

Note:  Dave's Inland example had a stamp.

Wondering the purpose of the stamps.  If the stamp wasn't there in early stocks and was added later, for what purpose?  How about late S' oval cuts?

To keep track of a quality issue?
A better way to keep track of inventory?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2016 at 11:50pm
OK, few thoughts.
In that era there might have been a journal of records of who worked what shift on each day. By putting a simple stamp in each stock would track the stock made each day. this would provide accountability for the day/shift made. If a problem was discovered in manufacturing they could pinpoint what day and shift the item was made.
This would also help the bean counters keep track of inventory.
 
Unlike the manufacturing stamps in sling well designed to find manufacturer if fault found in field, the date stamp inside of stock was not meant to last the test of time.  Look at the perfect mark and ask yourself if that carbine saw combat, or was ever cleaned in the field.
I would guess that stock never made it out of a storage room.
 
 By not seeing it a carbine that has "been there did that"  says that it was stamped by ink or chalk that was applied for factory information only and not meant to stand the test of time.
 
My previous post of having rebuild marks etc. was a testament to not finding marks as the are long gone.
 
I will defer to the S&C stocks in newsworthy "Unusual markings" once again as they may all have been stamped under the butt plate as a means of pinpointing when manufactured
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gene of oregon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2016 at 12:13am
PingCMP    Just curious, does your S'G' have IP stamped parts??
The flag does not fly because of the wind that blows it. The flag flies because each soldier's last breath blows by it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2016 at 12:43am
http://www.csgnetwork.com/julianmodifdateconv.html
now I am not saying that this is, but using the formulas and moving years and months/days it may be convertible.
 
 
the key is finding a start date and why
 
 

Day and year only[edit]

The U.S. military sometimes uses a system, which they call "Julian date format"[12] that indicates the year and the actual day out of the 365 days of the year (and thus a designation of the month would not be needed). For example, "11 December 1999" can be written in some contexts as "1999345" or "99345", for the 345th day of 1999.[13] This system is most often used in US military logistics, since it makes the process of calculating estimated shipping and arrival dates easier. For example: say a tank engine takes an estimated 35 days to ship by sea from the US to Korea. If the engine is sent on 99104, it should arrive on 99139. Note that outside of the US military and some US government agencies, including the Internal Revenue Service, this format is usually referred to as "ordinal date", rather than "Julian date" [14]

Such ordinal date formats are also used by many computer programs (especially those for mainframe systems). Using a three-digit Julian day number saves one byte of computer storage over a two-digit month plus two-digit day, for example, "January 17" is 017 in Julian versus 0117 in month-day format. OS/390 or its successor, z/OS, display dates in yy.ddd format for most operations.

UNIX time, which stores time as a number in seconds since the UNIX Epoch (1970-01-01).

Another "ordinal" date system ("ordinal" in the sense of advancing in value by one as the date advances by one day) is in common use in astronomical calculations and referencing and uses the same name as this "logistics" system. The continuity of representation of period regardless of the time of year being considered is highly useful to both groups of specialists. The astronomers describe their system as also being a "Julian date" system. Unlike the system described above, the astronomical system does not consider years, it only counts days. Thus it is unperturbed by complications such as leap years.[citation

 
I do know My grand father in law worked for IBM and they were doing punch  cards  which involved a date system
 
 
when he enlisted in the service he was quickly assigned to intelligence.
I do miss him and his stories of the take home in his attic. It latter became more enjoyable knowing he was 5'5" and 140 soaking wet and his claim to carrying a 16 lb  BAR.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Car Wash Chris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2016 at 6:54pm
FWIW Found this in the news letters.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m1a1fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2016 at 9:40pm
Right in front of us....lol. The ink marks are mentioned but the stock configuration is a little different than the ones pictured here. Probably how it left the factory.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Car Wash Chris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2016 at 3:17pm
Originally posted by m1a1fan m1a1fan wrote:

Right in front of us....lol. The ink marks are mentioned but the stock configuration is a little different than the ones pictured here. Probably how it left the factory.



Yes but what's it mean and why ??? The S'G' ink marked stock mystery thread continues.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m1a1fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2016 at 7:45pm
Think it's what new2 said, some kind of date format.  No matter, since we can all agree the marking helped someone track something.  That's the harder nut to crack.  Would need some kind of evidence.  They made stock, started marking them, then stopped (do we have later examples without the mark?).  A SN range for the markings would be a good start.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2016 at 8:34pm
I do not think they stopped marking them.
I do think it was for in factory use to keep track on stocks.
I think the information is easily wiped off with any cleaner or oil
 
This is where good reporting is key, with that education collectors where to look and what to look for.
 
If we compile a list all we would have to do is notice if a digit placement did not use all numbers, group of 3 not exceeding 365or group of two not exceeding 52 (weeks)  or number of weeks till around where we know production stopped. That is how you crack this nut!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2016 at 9:57pm
There is a very good chance that dent in the stock can be removed. I have been building and repairing furniture for 40 odd years . Fill the dent  with water, let it soak in and with the tip of the hot iron, cause the water to steam. Repeat as often as necessary being careful not to scorch the surrounding wood.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m1a1fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2016 at 10:15pm
You'll need to be more dent specific. A lot of dents around these parts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2016 at 11:14pm
Originally posted by Charles Charles wrote:

There is a very good chance that dent in the stock can be removed. I have been building and repairing furniture for 40 odd years . Fill the dent  with water, let it soak in and with the tip of the hot iron, cause the water to steam. Repeat as often as necessary being careful not to scorch the surrounding wood.
 
I think he may be referring to the dent in Rcycles stock
 
I vote leave it alone!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m1a1fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2016 at 5:40pm
Didn't even notice it. Have many dents. Can't bring myself to change anything but don't have the necessary woodworking skills anyway.
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