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Saginaw owner in SE Pa.

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Matt_X View Drop Down
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    Posted: Nov 11 2020 at 8:48am
Just took ownership of a first batch Saginaw SG that seems to correct.
Previous owner seems to have considered it as a collectors item based on his purchase of a c-clip sling, period magazine pouch and SG marked magazines.

I'd certainly like to shoot it but will need to find a place to do so.
The seller provided a data sheet, but its not the carbine club data sheet.  So I'll fill one out in the next week or so. 

My interest goes back to when I was a kid.  An uncle had one he had taken when he left service ('45 or '46).  He had removed the bolt but was otherwise complete.  Unfortunately that's gone, possibly destroyed, as the family forgot about it when they moved, and the house was in NJ so no way to know what the new owners would have/could have done.

So aquiring one was always on my bucket list, and now I finally got 'round to it.



Edited by Matt_X - Nov 12 2020 at 9:11am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Durango56 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 11 2020 at 9:18am
 Congratulations, sounds like a really nice rifle. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 11 2020 at 9:19am
Welcome to the forum, hope to see some pictures of your carbine.
Wayne
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_X Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 11 2020 at 9:55am
Thanks,
Probably the best photos at the moment will be from the seller.
Lets give it a try.






You guys can tell me more. 

Bluing is decent on the barrel and good on the bolt.  Possible rack wear or later bayonette barrel band mark.  The highwood has a nicely repaired crack.  Handguard has a different finish and is a bit loose.  Flip sight leaf spring tension is a bit soft.  Slide has some play but maybe that's typical?
Seller stated headspace is 1.292, bore like new, and muzzle wear 2.0

Those are the 'faults' I'm aware of.  Not sure how bore could be 'like new' with muzzle ware of 2 but I'll take it as very good for a barrel that's seen some use.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Patrick_B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 11 2020 at 10:20am
Hey Matt, welcome and congrats. 

You could have done way worse on your first one and that’s a lot nicer than many get after their first few. Nice find, and a beautiful rifle. Slide play, yes some is normal. How much is relative and it can vary a good deal depending on wear, tolerances, and maker. Generally, if it stays in track on the receiver it’s ok. As for the discrepancy on the MW, just chalk it up to seller description and reality. MW 2 isn’t a bad thing at all, and it may be more accurate than another two with a MW 1. I’ve seen them all over the map, and accuracy is dependent on a few factors at minimum. At the very least, you’ve likely got a fantastic and desirable early featured shooter, and likely a good deal more. Once again...Nice find, and major congrats. 
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Matt_X View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_X Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 11 2020 at 11:02am
Thanks.  I did a fair amount of on-line reading and when I saw those RTI a couple months ago I went so far as to call and ask some questions.  I really liked the idea of knowing the provinance.  But had second thoughts about the gamble, not wanting another project, especially in an area I lacked expertise and experience.

This Saginaw particularly appealed to me so decided I should pull the trigger (so to speak). :)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kro1970 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 11 2020 at 12:32pm
Is the receiver marked SG or S'G'? Stock looks like a nice Saginaw S'G' stock.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_X Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 11 2020 at 2:12pm
Originally posted by kro1970 kro1970 wrote:

Is the receiver marked SG or S'G'? Stock looks like a nice Saginaw S'G' stock.
SG
The butt plate is S'G'

I'm field stripping it now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_X Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 12 2020 at 9:06am
So the receiver and slide are marked SG, but the stock, butt plate, and handguard are S'G' and RSG.
Now I'm more curious if what I have is the original assembly??




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigheavy31 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 12 2020 at 1:54pm
Hello- unfortunately the stock doesn’t appear to be original- although it is a nice S’G’ stock. The cartouche you would be wanting to see would be a boxed SG lined up lengthwise (facing down) when you look at the stock horizontally. Hope that makes sense vs. the S’G’ facing the buttplate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_X Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 12 2020 at 4:13pm
Thanks. I see there were some articles on S'G' stocks in the print newsletter index. 

I'm going to hold off on sending in my data sheet until I get a bit more familiar with things.
I have Ruth's Design here, and Ruth & Duff along with Kuhnhausen expected any day.

That said; no matter how much reading I do there will be things people with experience and first hand knowledge will observe that I won't see. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_X Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 14 2020 at 10:18pm
According to this http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/stocks.html ; RSG stamped stocks went to Saginaw. So if someone can explain (PM is OK) why this is an actual S'G' I'm just going to say I don't know.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 14 2020 at 11:06pm
Matt, both Saginaw plants used RSG stocks, your has the S'G' cartouche which indicates that it was at one time on a Saginaw S'G' (*Grand Rapids) carbine. 
Wayne
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote welbytwo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 15 2020 at 12:36am
yes and its worth more than a SG stock, is a $400 to 800+

stock today--it may have been used as big use of s'g' and sg mix at end of s'g' contract-same corporate parent
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 15 2020 at 10:05am
To add to Wayne's post,
Saginaw Steering Gear Division of General Motors was making receivers for Inland Division of General Motors as a subcontractor.
Irwin Pedersen was unable to qualify any carbines and they had their contract cancelled.

Saginaw Steering Gear was given the IP contract as well as their own contract to make carbines.
They operated out of the Former IP factory in Grand Rapids MI as well as one of their own factories in Saginaw MI.

There were marking requirements by Ordnance in order to establish which factory a part came out of, This was for accountability.

Saginaw Steering Gear in Saginaw MI used SG or S.G. and at the Grand Rapids factory used S'G'
Emphasis above SG meaning Steering Gear. It was one company that operated at two different facilities.

The Robert Irwin Company joined with John Pedersen to form Irwin-Pedersen.
The Robert Irwin company was a furniture company and made the stocks for I-P. When the I-P lost the contract they were retained by SG for stocks and they were now marked RSG (Robert Irwin- Steering Gear)

The crossed cannons and the SG or S'G' in the box were the ordnance acceptance stamps.
Even though both factories were being run by Saginaw Steering Gear, each factory had its own ordnance inspectors and each factory had different ordnance markings.



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Matt_X View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_X Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 17 2020 at 11:02am
OK. So its an interesting mystery as to when the stock was married to the rest of the gun.  If I was more sure it was something done in the past 20 years I'd be more willing to seperate to help out someone restoring an S'G'.  At this point though it seems just as likely that the stock is a part of the guns service history.  As such it doesn't seem right to seperate it in exchange for an 'as built' RSG with SG acceptance stampings.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote 03manV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 17 2020 at 4:01pm
Matt,
I think you can be sure it was not done in its original manufacture.

When it was changed after that, who knows; probably a restoration- which have been being done since
the CC was started, at least now about 50 years. 

If I had an SG carbine and was offered an original and correct SG cartouche stock in trade for your S'G', I'd ask for boot-
 but trade anyway if I could not get it! ;)

JMHO
Don
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