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Rock-ola M1 Carbine

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jouri_ph View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jouri_ph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Rock-ola M1 Carbine
    Posted: Sep 07 2020 at 1:02pm
Hello all,

I'm looking into buying a Rock-ola M1 carbine. And I have an eye on one but it has a marking on the left side of the stock with big letters "ZSTD" and a number 12 on the bottom of the grip. Does anyone knows what that means? I've found some info about rebuild marks but I can't find info  about "ZSTD"

I hope someone can help me out with this.

Best regards,

JP


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 07 2020 at 1:19pm
Welcome to the forum, Is it possible to post a picture of that marking?
Wayne
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jouri_ph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 07 2020 at 1:47pm
Thanks for you reply!
Hereby the pictures of the markings;
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 07 2020 at 3:37pm
Would imagine that the 12 on the bottom of the grip is a rack number. The ZSTD is new to me. Hopefully someone has some info on it.
Wayne
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jouri_ph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 07 2020 at 4:02pm
Ok, Thanks again for your help Beer
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 07 2020 at 6:13pm
Welcome to TCCC !

Do you see any markings on any of the parts groups often found on the Bavarian/Austrian used carbines?

Look thru this link, paying attention to Imports sent to Denmark:

Also When you have the above link open, See the top left side links to Austria/Germany stories.

More pictures of the overall carbine may help us narrow down who used it.

With all that said- First time for me seeing that ZSTD on a stock.

Charlie-P777
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Beezer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 07 2020 at 6:17pm
ZSTD is stamped similar to a rework arsenal marking but I have been unable to locate anything. I did find Zimbabwe Socially Transmitted Diseases, I doubt the lead this spits out is considered a transmitted disease.  It’s defiantly a head scratcher, but most certainly a nice looking rifle!  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 07 2020 at 9:59pm
Originally posted by Beezer Beezer wrote:

ZSTD, I did find Zimbabwe Socially Transmitted Diseases, I doubt the lead this spits out is considered a transmitted disease.   

D@mn Beezer Confused

Ch-P777
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jouri_ph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 08 2020 at 10:46am
Thank you guys for all the messages!
Didn't expect this many replies, already feel at home at this forumSmile.
I don't have allot of pictures but here are all of them. Will take more when I have the rifle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SSNPingjockey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 08 2020 at 12:21pm
What if it is actually supposed to be "ZSPD" and the "P" did not come out well?

There is a "ECPD" here for "East Cleveland Police Department" that was marked similarly.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/876539546

There's a "Zolfo Springs Police Department" in Florida.

Just a thought.  Many carbines were surplused and bought by police departments all over the country over the years and then the PDs sold them at auction starting in the 1970s and beyond.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SSNPingjockey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 08 2020 at 12:23pm
Well, maybe not such a great thought...lololol…….just saw that you are in the Netherlands.  Probably not likely a surplused US police department carbine.
Chad S.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sling00 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 08 2020 at 1:19pm
Welcome to the forum!  I enjoy learning about how things are different in other countries.  This carbine's wood finish resembles the care taken of the Bavarian/Austrian carbines. It will be interesting to see what Jim might add. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jouri_ph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 08 2020 at 3:31pm
Hi all,

I can buy this beauty for a good price so I will go through with it.
After that I will definitely keep you guys updated with more pictures/stamps when I actually own it.
Unfortunately it takes a long... Looong time to buy any firearm in The Netherlands so don't expect anything soon + Covid will definitely slow things down even more.

Again thank you guys for all your wisdom and I will definitely look into the Bavarian/Austrian carbine articles.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 08 2020 at 5:49pm
ZSTD

I understand until jouri_ph gets carbine in hand and can inspect for any markings we often see on the Bavarian/Austria carbines that all are just guesses.

But before I loose track of what I've looked at consider these just some notes.

Zoll  is Austria's customs. Zoll Wache the tariff guard markings: ZW

Steiermark- a Austrian state.
Salzburg- a Austrian state. Zell Am is in Salzburg and had 284 personnel in 46 posts.
       The Austrian state of Salzburg's Capitol is the city of Salzburg. Which also had 284 personnel in 46 posts.
Zell Am is 56 Km south of the capital city of Salzburg.

Tirol is a Austrian state that borders Salzburg to the east and Italy to the south.
  But at the end of WWII a border dispute with Italy left South Tirol as part of Italy.
  This split the Austrian state of Tirol leaving a 20 Km gap between North and South Tirol.
  Though split these 2 areas were still 1 state. The southern split known as East Tirol was
  called the District of Lienz.

ZSTD

Could the Z come from Zoll or Zell because of some swap, sell, trade or transfer from Steiermark or
Salzburg ?

Could the TD be for the Tirol District ?

Guessing with Salzburg  and Zell being located closely to the east of the disputed area between Tirol and Italy. With the end result having the south east of Tirol becoming known as the Tirol District.
It may be possible some or part of the above might pertain to the stock's markings.

Zell, Salzburg Tirol District

Or not...... Could just be initials !!






  
Here is a Carbine from Tirol with a unknown Stock stamp:
http://www.bavarianm1carbines.com/carbineAGT_0439.html



Could this be District of Tirol ?

The information above I gathered and Butchered from our Hard Working Buddy Jim M.

Ch-P777


Edited by painter777 - Sep 09 2020 at 4:39pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote sleeplessnashadow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 13 2020 at 12:06am
Not a marking I've seen on the carbines used by Austria or Germany post WWII.

My question would be to the provenance if the seller knows where it came from. Along with any proof marks it may have.

Hundreds of thousands of carbines went to Western European nations and Scandinavian nations after WWII. Carbines sold in one country often came from another. Along with importers who have brought them into Western Europe from Africa and elsewhere over the years.

As noted, the markings on the bottom of the handgrip are consistent with a rack mark. The ZSTD may be a language other than English.

I've only seen the one carbine used by Austria with the DOT markings. I don't doubt there are/were others. May or may not mean District of Tyrol. Tyrol isn't a district to the Austrians. Haven't seen them referred to as a district in the U.S. documents I've seen. Just means I haven't seen the term in reference to anything in Austria.

Jim
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 03manV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 13 2020 at 9:48am
I see nothing to relate to Europe, could simply be:
Department of Transportation and related to guarding work release prisoners.

Use of the lower case "o" is not "usual" either.

JMHO.
Don
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