Click on the image above to learn more about the M1 Carbine
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Mortar-Forker 
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 Posted: Oct 09 2021 at 12:17pm |
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Thanks Matt, that is an interesting graph. It suggests that the 30 carbine peaks much earlier than other rifles. It sure does look like 25 and 100 yards line up. This is how I typically picture rifle trajectory with most rifles:
 To credit from here: https://www.ammoland.com/2014/06/how-to-zero-your-ar-15-rifle/ |
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Matt_X
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Posted: Oct 09 2021 at 2:17pm |
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Interesting! Out of curiousity, lets see what Federal's calculator shows with a .785" high sight zeroed at 25 yards compared with 100 yards. PS. Here's the correct URL https://www.federalpremium.com/Ballistics-Calculator Graphed using Excel (office 95)  H'm. I thought a shorter range zero would result in a higher trajectory down range. Lets try a 1.5" tall sight.  Interesting! Edited by Matt_X - Oct 09 2021 at 2:33pm |
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Mortar-Forker
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Posted: Oct 10 2021 at 7:50pm |
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Thanks for the info. It will help a bunch at the range. Looking at the bullet falling off, what was battlefield zero with the M1 carbine?
I will probably shoot the Inland again tomorrow at 25. I have a 5.6 HRA Garand arriving to sight in too. |
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Matt_X
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Posted: Oct 10 2021 at 10:21pm |
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I think the short answer is 100 yards. A few places mention the short range set at 125 yards but other than the Sniperscope, everything else from the period that I've seen says 100 yards. Aiming was based on 6 o'clock hold. Which means for targetting we need to know the bullseye diameter. Maybe someone can answer this for wartime production targetting. However the WW2 era field manuals state qualification target 'A' had a 10" bullseye. This is the sighting target in the 1953 Technical Manual for 100 yards  I don't know if its coincidence or not, but the Army 'A' qualification target went from a 10" bullseye to a 12" bullseye around this time. Makes me think the 1953 sighting target may be more generous than the original production requirements. And this is the 25 yard version from the same manual. Its a reduction by 4 of the 12" center. Click here for image of 25 yd target at Marlin ForumThe shots at 25 yards needed to hit 3/4" higher for the 100 yard zero to be correct (with a 6 o'clock hold). So I's say if your 25 yard group is slightly above center, it should be pretty close to centered at 100 yards. Edited by Matt_X - Oct 10 2021 at 10:48pm |
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35 Whelen
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Posted: Oct 10 2021 at 10:43pm |
With the original flip sight, the short range zero was 150 yds., the long range, 300 yds. I think 150 yds. is a pretty good compromise. I'm not super picky as long as when using the 100 yd. sight setting, my 100 yds. POI is POA to +3" or so. Here are some tables that might help you decide.    |
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Mortar-Forker
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Posted: Oct 11 2021 at 8:27am |
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Thanks! I was going to drop the Inland 25 yard POI and leave the Plainfield based on old habits and other rifle calibers. After looking at the info it would be better to leave the Inland and raise the Plainfield 25 yard POI for a 100 yard zero.
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Matt_X
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Posted: Oct 11 2021 at 9:44am |
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Yes. That makes sense. If you are aiming at target center, then a group about .4" up will give provide a zero at 100 yds. If you are aiming using 6 o'clock hold, its the same but requires a 25 yard bullseye scaled down by roughly 4 from the intended 100 yard bullseye. For example the Army 'A' target was 12" so they used a 3" bullseye at 25 yard. The current competition SR-1 black is just over 6" diameter so a 1.5" bullseye at 25 yards would be the scaled down, |
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Mortar-Forker
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Posted: Oct 11 2021 at 7:25pm |
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I raised the Plainfield. The upper right target low shot was the first shot. I raised it to the 150 setting and hit the two following shots.
 The Inland I put two clicks left. One was a bit low, but everything is good to move back to 100 yards. The Garand shots look great except the last two in the lower left. The low one was pulled off before I was settled and the other was done too quickly because Mrs Mortar Forker was saying I was too loud.  The target is over yonder there: 
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Matt_X
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Posted: Oct 13 2021 at 12:52pm |
 Shells I picked up at the range. Cloth was cotton rag (t-shirt? or sheet?). Kero I keep on hand for assortment of tasks. Not that much kero in it. Just enough to wet the wick. Experiment a little.
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W5USMC
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Posted: Oct 13 2021 at 3:17pm |
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Love it Matt, but a Zippo lighter works well too.
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Wayne
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Matt_X
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Posted: Oct 13 2021 at 3:53pm |
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The cheap Bic lighter I have didn't produce much soot, hence the experiment. Maybe for range I should hunt down a real Zippo!
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Rebel92
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Posted: Oct 13 2021 at 3:55pm |
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what is meant by barrel hang?
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floydthecat
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Posted: Oct 13 2021 at 4:42pm |
When the action is mounted in the stock and the recoil plate torqued, the barrel at the end of the stock nose should ride slightly off the stock-channel. Think of it as inletting a target rifle stock so that the barrel does not touch any of the wood. This is one of the finer points of accuracy, but to be honest….I have never worried about it. These competition shooters and serious accuracy enthusiast might can benefit, my goals are coffee cans at 40-50 yards.
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Rebel92
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Posted: Oct 13 2021 at 4:46pm |
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is that the gap between my barrel and the stock by the barrel band?
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Rebel92
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Posted: Oct 13 2021 at 4:51pm |
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Matt_X
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Posted: Oct 13 2021 at 5:30pm |
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A couple pages back Charlie (painter777) described it pretty well I thought. The way I understand it, when the reciever is installed into the stock, it should lock snugly into the recoil plate. So snug that without a little push the barrel sits a little bit above its final seated position.   There is going to be a gap at the very front of the stock. It's the inner barrel band that contacts the inside of the stock. There may even be some impressions in the wood. "Your barrel hang and Recoil Plate lock up to Receiver look good to me.
If
it's just taking 'Light' Downward pressure to push it down to drop the
Hand Guard and slide the Band forward, I'd say you have it as close as
it's going to be. It's not unusual for the Barrel Not to Spring back up when you remove the Band and HG. Often it seems they tend to settle in." Painter777 |
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Rebel92
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Posted: Oct 13 2021 at 5:39pm |
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yep, I was just looking at that trying to decipher what yall were taking about. My gun shoots amazingly accurate, but am a perfectionist (about some things)
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floydthecat
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Posted: Oct 13 2021 at 5:58pm |
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Think about the carbine as you do with the Mini 14, unless you have a recent heavy-barrel model, it has a similar pencil barrel like the carbine. I probably don’t have to tell you about all the whining that goes on over Mine 14 accuracy and there are numerous gadgets sold to help correct it. Amazingly enough, the carbine guru’s figured out a long time ago that the type III band improves accuracy. What I think it does is stabilize the barrel-whip. You can purchase the gadgets to hang on a Mini to accomplish the same thing.
I’m saying you can’t expect much more from a carbine than you can a stock pencil-barreled Mini, but likely a little better.
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Rebel92
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Posted: Oct 13 2021 at 6:01pm |
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I do have the recent ones with the fat barrel
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floydthecat
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Posted: Oct 13 2021 at 6:26pm |
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I have a 85 stainless model and my shooter carbine groups better. I only shoot at closer ranges though and Mini groups suit my needs for that.
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Mortar-Forker wrote: