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Range Report, 2 M-1 Carbines at the range today

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DonFlynn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote DonFlynn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Range Report, 2 M-1 Carbines at the range today
    Posted: Aug 22 2020 at 8:40pm
1st up,


My 1944 Inland, got a new stock for it and wanted to see how it handled in the new wood


100 rounds Armscor, 50 chest shots and 50 head shots. Ran great, no problems 10 of the chest shots are the RSO, he'd never fired a M-1 Carbine so I left him run 10 while I watched the ejection of the shells

Next up,





My 1966 Plainfield


100 rounds PPU this time. 1 FTF at round 15. I'm thinking ammo, next trip Labor Day weekend I'm going to try the Armscor or a batch of Korean I picked up at AIM Surplus today.

Again, 10 rounds in the chest fired by the RSO (different one) so I could check the ejection pattern 
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painter777 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 22 2020 at 9:09pm
"That's a Nice Day, Sgt Savage"

.... Sgt Major Basil Plumley

We Were Soldiers



Living Free because of those that serve.....
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Donnie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Donnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 22 2020 at 10:21pm
Well, someone certainly had fun today. Nice shooting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonFlynn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 23 2020 at 10:07am
Originally posted by Donnie Donnie wrote:

Well, someone certainly had fun today. Nice shooting.

It'll do, it was only 50 yards using a bench rest
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tenOCEE View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tenOCEE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 23 2020 at 12:00pm
"The M1 Carbine isn't accurate. It won't hit that clock on the wall.", said some old fool at a gun show that I immediately told was full of crap and was tired of hearing the phony stories.
My sig: Seen an IP or S'G'? Add it to my registry. We'll check consecutives.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonFlynn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 23 2020 at 2:04pm
Originally posted by tenOCEE tenOCEE wrote:

"The M1 Carbine isn't accurate. It won't hit that clock on the wall.", said some old fool at a gun show that I immediately told was full of crap and was tired of hearing the phony stories.

That and "it won't penetrate anything" are my 2 favorite myths. Over 250 yards maybe, but the gun wasn't designed for much more than that. With any of my rebuilt USGI's and Howa or my new Fulton Armory Carbines I don't feel undergunned out to 300 yards. Funny thing is I was getting better groups with the Carbines yesterday iron sights than I was my "SHTF" AR-15 with a red dot bench resting.

Granted, I was tweaking zero on that but overall I've always been a better shot under 200 yards with a Carbine than a Ar, I've been shooting them since I was a teen. The only reason I'd use a Ar in SHTF world is in the 21st Century ammo will be easier to find. 30 years ago I owned a AR and M-1 Carbines (Rockola and Plainfield) and the Rock was my preferred SHTF rifle because ammo was still easy to find....hell....Walmart carried it
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03manV View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 03manV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 23 2020 at 2:56pm
Don,
you call one of your carbines a "Howa", but just what part of it is made by Howa?Question


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonFlynn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 23 2020 at 5:57pm
Originally posted by 03manV 03manV wrote:

Don,
you call one of your carbines a "Howa", but just what part of it is made by Howa?Question



Slide, bolt and trigger group according to Fulton Armory. We "know" the receiver was originally a Winchester made one that got a serial number in the Royal Thai Police order range (FA confirmed that when they did the rebuild on it, I had them install a new barrel and bolt and they replaced all worn trigger group parts)with the Royal Thai markings on the receiver.

Your guess is as good as mine what happened to get that combination of parts came together. When FA did the rebuild they had to list it as "New Helvetia Trade Group" since outside of the serial number (02***) similar to this one on the facts page


it would be interesting to know the whole story. The numbering and crest on the receiver are to well done IMO to be a "jungle gunsmith" and I doubt the importer would have taken the time or have been legal to grind off a Winchester rollmark          
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03manV View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 03manV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 23 2020 at 6:27pm
Have you posted pictures of the receiver markings on a previous thread?
I'll like to see it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonFlynn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 23 2020 at 8:31pm
Originally posted by 03manV 03manV wrote:

Have you posted pictures of the receiver markings on a previous thread?
I'll like to see it.

I have, I'll load them back into my hosting program real quick
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonFlynn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 23 2020 at 8:45pm
Originally posted by 03manV 03manV wrote:

Have you posted pictures of the receiver markings on a previous thread?
I'll like to see it.

Here we go. These pics are from when I 1st got it early 2019. The rear sight has since been replaced with a new one because the old one was shot. There were no markings under the sight

 






Trigger group. FA installed a new hammer and springs 


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03manV View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 03manV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 23 2020 at 10:07pm
Very interesting. Thanks for the pictures.
I believe your receiver must have been scrubbed by Howa and marked by them with the Thai Police marking and the serial number from the Thai range.

You can see in the pictures of my Howa made receiver below, that the rear sight, and rear sight dovetail area is different from the US contour. 
The serial number is stamped in similar font and location.



I'm not sure why my uploaded pictures are showing as links and not pictures.
Maybe someone can give me a tutorial on inserting pictures. Shocked
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonFlynn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 23 2020 at 10:35pm
Originally posted by 03manV 03manV wrote:

Very interesting. Thanks for the pictures.
I believe your receiver must have been scrubbed by Howa and marked by them with the Thai Police marking and the serial number from the Thai range.

You can see in the pictures of my Howa made receiver below, that the rear sight, and rear sight dovetail area is different from the US contour. 
The serial number is stamped in similar font and location.



I'm not sure why my uploaded pictures are showing as links and not pictures.
Maybe someone can give me a tutorial on inserting pictures. Shocked

That's what I figured also. Since we sent Howa a bunch of parts post war odds are they had a few surplus GI receivers they reused as needed.

You might or might not like what I just did to the Howachester (Big smile )


Choate stock, Ultimak M-1 Carbine tact guard and a Vortex "Sparc" Mk 1 red dot. That needs zeroing for the Carbine but I've been wanting to try this rig out for awhile.

If this rig works it'll be my "truck gun" this fall. While I own my share of AR's I've never liked the AR "pistol". This gives me a compact Carbine with decent range if needed and it folds down into a duffel bag I keep in my car 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 03manV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 24 2020 at 8:25am
I'm all for "modifications" that don't permanently alter a "good" carbine! Thumbs Up

I think "Howachester" is a good moniker.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonFlynn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 24 2020 at 8:44am
Originally posted by 03manV 03manV wrote:

I'm all for "modifications" that don't permanently alter a "good" carbine! Thumbs Up

I think "Howachester" is a good moniker.

That's why I'm not modifying the wood stock on the Howachester for the tact guard. I've already screwed up 1 decent Carbine stock this summer so no reason to add to that. If I end up not liking this set up I can take the Ultimak off easy enough and the Choate stock only cost me $40 bucks at a gun show back when we still had those.

This rig does have a different "feel" for a Carbine with the stock. If it works and I get used to it fine, if not I'm only out a few bucks and the ammo I use.

If I really like this set up I'm thinking of switching it to the Plainfield down the road. That's still in the "prove itself" stage ( the 1 FTF I mentioned, been getting that every range trip). The Howachester went through a FA rebuild and so far has had only 1 FTF/FTE the past 1000 rounds, mag related IMO.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David Milisock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 25 2020 at 8:08am
Originally posted by DonFlynn DonFlynn wrote:

Originally posted by 03manV 03manV wrote:

Very interesting. Thanks for the pictures.
I believe your receiver must have been scrubbed by Howa and marked by them with the Thai Police marking and the serial number from the Thai range.

You can see in the pictures of my Howa made receiver below, that the rear sight, and rear sight dovetail area is different from the US contour. 
The serial number is stamped in similar font and location.



I'm not sure why my uploaded pictures are showing as links and not pictures.
Maybe someone can give me a tutorial on inserting pictures. Shocked

That's what I figured also. Since we sent Howa a bunch of parts post war odds are they had a few surplus GI receivers they reused as needed.

You might or might not like what I just did to the Howachester (Big smile )


Choate stock, Ultimak M-1 Carbine tact guard and a Vortex "Sparc" Mk 1 red dot. That needs zeroing for the Carbine but I've been wanting to try this rig out for awhile.

If this rig works it'll be my "truck gun" this fall. While I own my share of AR's I've never liked the AR "pistol". This gives me a compact Carbine with decent range if needed and it folds down into a duffel bag I keep in my car 
What fun rifles you have! I have two FrankenCarbines that I keep as fun working rifles, I would never destroy a collectable. 

One is a Quality Hardware the other an Inland. The QH is a tac configuration, the Inland is in M1A1 configuration with an after market replica stock.

With good FMJ inside carbine range soft armor is toast, with practice almost 80 years after the design the old girl is still a top of the line close quarter combat rifle. 

When I run drills from 15 yards to two hundred that M1A1 is a tough act to follow. Fast accurate and easy to carry. 

We should get laws passed protecting them for civilian use as national treasures.
David Milisock
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonFlynn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 25 2020 at 9:34am
Originally posted by David Milisock David Milisock wrote:

Originally posted by DonFlynn DonFlynn wrote:

Originally posted by 03manV 03manV wrote:

Very interesting. Thanks for the pictures.
I believe your receiver must have been scrubbed by Howa and marked by them with the Thai Police marking and the serial number from the Thai range.

You can see in the pictures of my Howa made receiver below, that the rear sight, and rear sight dovetail area is different from the US contour. 
The serial number is stamped in similar font and location.



I'm not sure why my uploaded pictures are showing as links and not pictures.
Maybe someone can give me a tutorial on inserting pictures. Shocked

That's what I figured also. Since we sent Howa a bunch of parts post war odds are they had a few surplus GI receivers they reused as needed.

You might or might not like what I just did to the Howachester (Big smile )


Choate stock, Ultimak M-1 Carbine tact guard and a Vortex "Sparc" Mk 1 red dot. That needs zeroing for the Carbine but I've been wanting to try this rig out for awhile.

If this rig works it'll be my "truck gun" this fall. While I own my share of AR's I've never liked the AR "pistol". This gives me a compact Carbine with decent range if needed and it folds down into a duffel bag I keep in my car 
What fun rifles you have! I have two FrankenCarbines that I keep as fun working rifles, I would never destroy a collectable. 

One is a Quality Hardware the other an Inland. The QH is a tac configuration, the Inland is in M1A1 configuration with an after market replica stock.

With good FMJ inside carbine range soft armor is toast, with practice almost 80 years after the design the old girl is still a top of the line close quarter combat rifle. 

When I run drills from 15 yards to two hundred that M1A1 is a tough act to follow. Fast accurate and easy to carry. 

We should get laws passed protecting them for civilian use as national treasures.

Part of me wants to try and find a M1A1 stock and try that rail on that just to get the "feel" the same as a normal stocked M-1 Carbine. The Choate stock I have adds about 3 inches to length compared to the normal M-1 stock.

Worst case if I want to keep the red dot and "tact" setup I can try this


That would give me an adjustable stock. Like everyone has said, I'm not modifying anything "collectible" that I can't turn back into what it was.

You could say I have done that on my USGI Inlands with the new barrels the past year, but the 1st was a Blue Sky import marked one (the one in this string with the new stock) and that bugged me.

My CMP bought Inland I got 2007 ended up having a worse barrel than CMP advertised. It gauged "+3" according to Fulton Armory so I went the new barrel because I want to make sure my relatives can have a accurate one when I pass it on.

The Howachester originally had a 44 Inland barrel the imported installed on it, I had FA install a new barrel but kept that and had them recrown it (it gauged a 2) so I figure if I ever feel the need I can have that installed on one of them and bring it back to USGI      
 
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David Milisock View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David Milisock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 26 2020 at 8:26am
I know there are Carbines that are collectable,  mine in some sense of the word to someone with low collecting standards might say that they are just because they were WWII rifles at one time.

My position is that my rifles were built to serve and they still serve today. It's my responsibility to see that they are maintained properly so they can do their job if required.

They are designs ahead of their time and in my opinion still using them and the younger generation seeing them properly used brings their contribution and the contribution of those who created them and those who served humanity with them to life.
David Milisock
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonFlynn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 26 2020 at 9:51am
I have the same outlook on guns. There are many that are collectable, if I owned say a low number M1A1 Carbine in original condition that I knew was correct I would not do anything to it.

Any Carbine I've owned through the years has been a shooter however and I want every gun I own to function 100% if needed. I figured my USGI Inlands are going to family members anyway when I'm gone, the one in this string I can shoot with the new barrel and still expect it'll have plenty of "life" left in it when I'm gone. The other I'll safe queen but know it's as reliable as need be "in case" 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonFlynn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 17 2020 at 5:52pm
Ok, "Ol 44" went back to the range today. 120 rounds Korean testing 2 mags I've been having problems with and 1 new KCI mag


Center mass bench resting, head shots free handing sitting down. I swear, Ol 44 will eat anything I feed it and use any mag I own no issues. The 2 mags that I'd been having problems with ran fine 30 rounds each (I did clean them up) and the 1 KCI mag ran like a top 6 10 round checks.
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