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Question with my Inland X suffix SN

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colreed View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colreed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Question with my Inland X suffix SN
    Posted: Apr 02 2022 at 11:07am
I recently acquired Inland SN 941xxxX. CCNL 49 states in part:

"In theory, there should be about 500 suffix X guns tucked away in closets in the USA. Eight of these X suffix guns are known to be in various collections."

CCNL 49 was a long time ago. Since then, has there been any additional accounting for the number of X duplicated SG made Inland receivers? 500 sounds like a very low number. 

And, Should the configuration of this carbine be the same as would be expected for SN 941xxx (Inland produced), or were they built at different times resulting in a different parts makeup?

Many thanks.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jackp1028 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 02 2022 at 6:32pm
To answer your first question, to date I am aware of only nine "X" suffixed Inland serial numbers, including yours, in the range noted in Table F here;

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/serialnumbers.html#duplicates

They are:

941---X (yours)
942629X
943995X
947486X
946899X
947658X
947852X
948381X
950691X

I am aware of only two non "X" suffixed Inland carbines in the same serial number range.

They are:

945139
945313

Regarding "Parts Makeup", one of the non "X" suffixed carbines is described in great detail here:

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/late-1943-inland_topic3640.html

Based on this, I would conclude that most of the carbines in the range reported on the Serial Number web page, as many as 10,000, would be duplicates or "X" suffixed, many more than 500 (see CCNL 369-4). Judging from the barrel dates recorded in the Serial Number Spread Sheets I would also conclude that they were all made at about the same time and should have a similar parts makeup.

Perhaps the keeper of the Data Sheets might be able to provide more information.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smokpole Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 02 2022 at 8:08pm
I'm surprised you don't have mine listed. I'm pretty sure I sent in a data sheet a long time ago. 947581X
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colreed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 02 2022 at 8:30pm
Thanks Jack
That helps a lot. 
And who knows how many might have gone down with Liberty ships crossing the Atlantic going to the war in Europe?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackp1028 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 02 2022 at 8:39pm
@Smokepole, unfortunately I only have access to the handful of Data Sheets that are actually posted on the Forum. That's why I would encourage members to include Data Sheets when they post images of their carbines in the "Carbines of the Collectors" forum.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 02 2022 at 9:25pm
The datasheets submitted were with the understanding that they would not be made public. They were and are used in updates for reporting. If someone agrees to a COM or use of there DS then that info can be shared. If an individual posts a datasheet then they are also willing to share that information publicly.

Some clearly do not want their serial numbers out there because they sometimes share too few numbers to accurately place them. We are grateful for what we get, but better to give all the numbers and state not to share the specifics. With over 45 years of DSs we can not logistically go backward to get permissions.

With that the answers are in the newsletters.

I recommend CCNL 357 as a must have as it discusses the contracts, numbers, duplication etc.
Page 9 estimates 11,000 numbers were duplicated when Saginaw overran the block of numbers assigned when making subcontracted Inland receivers in the range of 940000x - about 951000x

There is also a list of high and low numbers observed on pages 16 and 17 listing the low of around 940600x and the high of around 951920x

This is one of the very reasons we ask for DSs as new information rolls in from time to time that can update and change estimates.

Being it was an overrun the assumption would mean they were consecutively numbered till the error was discovered. However, so far I do not believe there has been a report of "twins" yet.... But I will defer to Marcus if he knows otherwise.

Another good NL is 369 which estimates relative scarcity of some variations, sorry, IP does not make the top 25 of the list other than lineouts.
Here the estimated amount is only 10,000 X suffix in that range. If you read CCNL 357 it explains the scrap rate and why after a certain point contractors were allotted 10% more numbers than contracted amounts.

CCNL 346 on the Inland first block update would be a good place to start to check what was observed on the X suffix carbines.

CCNL 268 runs down barrel dates on the first block Inlands and shows at least 20 X suffix carbines


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chipins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 03 2022 at 1:54pm
I have 948023x, with 12-43 barrel Inland barrel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackp1028 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 03 2022 at 6:15pm
@Smokepole and chipins, please post pictures of your X-suffixed Inlands along with Data Sheets in the "Carbines of the Collector's" forum and we can include them in the Serial Number Spread Sheets. That way a public record exists that adds to the general knowledge of the Club.

We have records of other X-suffixed Inlands with barrel dates 9-43 through 12-43, so it's likely original.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colreed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 03 2022 at 6:21pm
Jack,
I will post mine as well in a few days after I take photos. 941056X. Barrel 11-43

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chipins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 03 2022 at 7:09pm
Will do later this week Jack
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smokpole Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 03 2022 at 8:08pm
May take me a while to get around to doing it. I'll post the info and picture as soon as I get the chance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackp1028 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 04 2022 at 10:51am
Thanks Smokepole, Colreed and Chipins. When I update the Serial Number Spread Sheets with your X-suffixed serial Inlands, I'll also add the additional serial numbers New2brass noted in CCNL 268. I also know of a few more in the hands of another private collector. I will add those once I get his permission. That brings the count to 27.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colreed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 05 2022 at 1:31pm
Jack, I just uploaded photos of my Inland 941056X to Carbines of the Collectors. I tried loading the data sheet with the photos, but could not make it work. I did resize it to less than 500K and still didn't work. What am I doing wrong?
I just tried to post it here also, and no luck.
Thanks

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bubba-7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 05 2022 at 6:45pm
Dan, 
You can add 945784X and 947620X to your list.
These I won on CMP auction.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 05 2022 at 8:12pm
I will have Jack add it to his running list as well as club records
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackp1028 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 05 2022 at 8:56pm
Dan, they're already on my list.

Bubba-7 could you post pictures and a Data Sheet in the "Carbines of the Collectors" forum so I can link it in the Serial Number Spread Sheet?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smokpole Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 09 2022 at 9:11pm
Finally got the chance to take pictures of my X suffix today. Wouldn't you know it! The 
$800 camera died! I'll get a data sheet filled out and post that ASAP. I'll see what I can do with the cell phone camera. Sorry about that...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SSNPingjockey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 11 2022 at 11:44am
Just as another FYI, since more "X" suffix Inland dupe s/n have been posted to add to the list.

I also saw:

950723X on GB auction that ended 01/31/2022. It had a UEF 6/44 barrel on it and was all rebuilt with an M2 stock.

Also, just posted a photo in the Carbine s/n list section of:
941258X, which looks like it follows the barrel pattern with an Inland 11/43 barrel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbinekid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 21 2022 at 4:22pm
This one just sold on gunbroker and does not appear on the list of known serial numbers. 950382X and has a 12-43 dated barrel and type 5 slide. Looks completely original and unmolested.
http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/Forum/uploads/2217/FFFD6FF2-4921-43FF-AA20-413F62A30063.jpg
http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/Forum/uploads/2217/595F4A04-8A83-4C0A-8DB8-570161390C99.jpg
http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/Forum/uploads/2217/6A38F7C0-0DE3-4088-9498-6FACBE76DD82.jpg



Edited by New2brass - Nov 17 2022 at 10:42am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rebel92 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 21 2022 at 5:34pm
Damn I wanted that one on gunbroker. What did it end up going for?
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