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pulling out what little hair I have left.

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blackfish View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote blackfish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 23 2019 at 8:56pm
OK I'll take SPRINGS for $0.02 since I don't think that M2 receiver steel could have been worn down like that by a much softer material like copper even after thousands of rounds. But since I don't have my drawings with me, I can't really be sure. But since hand cycling "works" and "live" cycling doesnt ...

When was the last time you checked your magazine spring(s)?

There's a right way and a wrong way to install them. Needless to say, the wrong orientation will function very poorly.

How is your magazine spring oriented inside the magazine? You can't just stuff it in and close the end.

SIDE VIEW OF SPRING (breech is on the left and muzzle on the right)

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The "arrowheads" point in direction of bullet travel when correctly installed

If this is not revealing, get a known-to-be-good USGI mag (lots have been wrecked by end-user "tweaking" so BORROW one your eyes and ears tell you is functional at your range). See if that helps.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Bubba-7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 24 2019 at 6:25pm
After all you have done, I would check the gas nut to see if it is the late style.  While it is out, I would size the gas port and be sure it is at least 0.070" dia.  Then clean it.

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David Milisock View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David Milisock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 25 2019 at 11:59am
I'm posting a few images of my feed ramps and then one of a magazine comparison. It's fairly clear to me that the feed ramp on my Inland has been polished at one time. The darker feed ramp is from my Quality Hardware Carbine, both feed flawlessly.

The only cycling issues I have had in the past were due to improper cold weather preparation methods and or underperforming ammunition.

After resolving these issues the only other cycling issues I have had have been due to the unfortunate aspect of purchasing improperly manufacture or stored magazines.









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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote David Milisock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 25 2019 at 12:18pm
Ok here are the mag pictures, both mags as you see them pictured work in both carbines flawlessly. The magazine on the right as you can see has a vastly different right ear (that's right as you see them) I'm posting a second image with a red line accenting the ear angles. I am of the opinion that I would make sure that the ammo is viable, then look at the magazines ears, the springs, not just the magazine springs but the recoil spring, check the gas port and piston and clean the rifle very well removing grease and oil for testing.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldfart69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 25 2019 at 2:55pm
Originally posted by W5USMC W5USMC wrote:

Originally posted by oldfart69 oldfart69 wrote:

is the feed ramp part of the receiver or barrel? Just trying to learn here.


The feed ramp is part of the receiver. One thing, I know that you have mentioned trying a number of different magazines but I do not recall if any have been USGI mags, as mentioned by other members USGI magazines are the way to go. I personally think that your receiver's over ground feed ramp is the problem but USGI mags are not very expensive and may be worth a try.


I will try to find some, so, what are good sources? 
THE oldfart69
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David Milisock View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David Milisock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 25 2019 at 3:13pm
Part of the receiver
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David Milisock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 25 2019 at 3:15pm
The magazine I show on the right had to have the right ear opened up just a tiny bit. I show it already repaired, but before it was repaired it failed in both my rifles. BTW I never slam a magazine home when placing it in the rifle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 25 2019 at 3:51pm
Originally posted by oldfart69 oldfart69 wrote:

I will try to find some, so, what are good sources? 


Seller 81mm on gunbroker usually has some USGI mags for sale, also J&G sales has some that are new old stock with a choice of Mfg.

https://www.jgsales.com/m1-carbine-15rd-surplus-magazine,-original-usgi,-nice-blued-condition,-with-choice-of-mfg-available.-p-402.html?osCsid=f3c8e944f4eec07fdf32c0606c45b68c
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldfart69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 26 2019 at 11:07pm
Originally posted by Bubba-7 Bubba-7 wrote:

After all you have done, I would check the gas nut to see if it is the late style.  While it is out, I would size the gas port and be sure it is at least 0.070" dia.  Then clean it.


OK, thanks. 1. This is an m1 not an m2, it is a plainfield commercial type made somewhere between 1963 and 1976. 2. 4 of the 5 mags I have are nib 2 are 10 round and 2 are 15 rounds the 15's are auto-ordnance, the 10's are unknown but new. I have one 20 round that came with with rifle of unknown age and use (it has the hold open follower). 3 I am including a new photo I just found of a different plainfield than mine it was found on either this site or a sister forum. Virtually, it is identical to mine except for the shine. Wednesday, my friend who has a steering gear ww2 m1 will allow me to use his trigger group in my rifle just to eliminate another part  group. hoping soon I can quit pestering all of you good guys, I am also asking my friend to bring his Us army tech guide which has detailed measurements. sigh. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 31 2019 at 10:59am
Over the course of the past few days, I have had the opportunity to gut a 41xxx Plainfield and a 5.5 Winnie. The Winnie is a mix-master and I cant’t swear it was never in M2 dress. However, the feed ramp in both receivers closely resemble the one here in question. I think it is highly likely that oldfart’s has been polished though....severely.

Plainfield barrels are skirtless and maybe the ramps were machined this way to improve feeding.....maybe. In any event, based in what I see and what OP says he saw at the range, this could obviously be the norm for Plainfield. This Plainfield I have here in my hands has never been disassembled.

I need to add that after a tune-up and cleaning, both these guns run flawlessly with any magazine I shove in.


Edited by floydthecat - Aug 31 2019 at 1:58pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote David Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 31 2019 at 9:57pm
Definitely try some USGI magazines. 90% of the time, problems like you mention are the result of magazine issues. If Kahr/AO Carbine magazines are anything like most Kahr/AO Thompson drums, I would eliminate them as a factor while troubleshooting your Carbine issues.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldfart69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 03 2019 at 8:56pm
Originally posted by floydthecat floydthecat wrote:

Over the course of the past few days, I have had the opportunity to gut a 41xxx Plainfield and a 5.5 Winnie. The Winnie is a mix-master and I cant’t swear it was never in M2 dress. However, the feed ramp in both receivers closely resemble the one here in question. I think it is highly likely that oldfart’s has been polished though....severely.

Plainfield barrels are skirtless and maybe the ramps were machined this way to improve feeding.....maybe. In any event, based in what I see and what OP says he saw at the range, this could obviously be the norm for Plainfield. This Plainfield I have here in my hands has never been disassembled.

I need to add that after a tune-up and cleaning, both these guns run flawlessly with any magazine I shove in.

I have tried my friends usgi mags and they act the same as my new ones. What does a tuneup consist of? When I got it, I replaced the recoil spring and guide, the ejector and extractor, the forog pin and all assorted parts. I cleaned the bolt in an ultrasonic cleaner with simple green. I lubed per the us army tech manual. All parts move smoothly and look appropriate. I can cycle rounds without firing and they all load and eject properly that way, but not when shot. I have fired new factory loads from remington, winchester and aquila ,  I have also fired my own hand loads using once fired brass from this firearm excluding any that did not cycle properly. I also put my friends entire lower trigger group in my rifle and shot with it as well with marrginally (maybe my imagination) better. That is all the news this afternoon. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote blackfish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 03 2019 at 10:34pm
Originally posted by oldfart69 oldfart69 wrote:

I also put my friends entire lower trigger group in my rifle and shot with it as well with marrginally (maybe my imagination) better.


This is the way to troubleshoot your issue(s).

Start with your barrelled receiver. Then assemble *all* of your friends parts onto it. You know his/her's works right? Does your's now work?

If the problem is not "fixed", it lies with your barrelled receiver to wit check your barrel alignment to the receiver.

If function is significantly better then you can start putting your parts back into the mix, one part at a time until badness reappears.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tenOCEE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 04 2019 at 3:45pm
Found my early Plainfield picture of the feed ramp. This was made in 1964ish.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 04 2019 at 3:53pm
I think all of us have pretty much demonstrated the Plainfield ramps were finished in this manner. I also think we can agree that OP’s has been polished...severely. Probably done because it may have had feeding issues from the get-go. Plainfield barrels are not skirted... maybe that aggravates things, but I have two un-skirted barrels in guns that function just fine. I have read where it could have been an issue. If the bolt does not properly seat it could cause extraction issues. *all* means change the bolt also.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 04 2019 at 4:17pm
Originally posted by floydthecat floydthecat wrote:

I think all of us have pretty much demonstrated the Plainfield ramps were finished in this manner.


But what about this picture, it does not look like it was finished the same way. Is it possible that Plainfield used "soft metal" for their receivers that actually wore down after many rounds down range?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote tenOCEE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 04 2019 at 5:22pm
Mistakes are made as soon as one states that something has been proven and accepted when it comes to things such as the Carbine, doesn't it?. I still learn such in my own experience. Patterns can be interpreted along a common time line and perhaps that's good enough. Look at the Universal discussion where it was suggested that after a certain serial that there should be no defects that like what were shown in two examples in a tight serial range where they weren't thought to exist.

On the Plainfield example I posted you can see what appears to be a cursory shaping with (what I'm assuming is) a rotary tool. It doesn't show finely polished metal, but that barrel swallowed a muzzle gauge completely to the hilt, so it was shot to death. "Shot out" in it's definition. But it functioned flawlessly if the magazine was true.

The ramps are something I'll be looking at when I see them locally at shows, along with looking for cracked Universal top rails in the 400,000 serial range-in all ranges actually.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 04 2019 at 9:29pm
I agree with all the input. Ramp is one of the roughest most distorted I've ever seen.
But.... with him being able to hand cycle with NO issues. I'd follow up on the advice from Roger M and make sure the Gas Cylinder is clear. If restricted it could be killing the energy the carbine relies on 'After the shot'.
Easy enough to check.

Good Luck,
Charlie-P777

ADD: Also look for Burrs on the inside rails the bolt lugs track on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldfart69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 05 2019 at 7:38pm
Originally posted by painter777 painter777 wrote:

I agree with all the input. Ramp is one of the roughest most distorted I've ever seen.
But.... with him being able to hand cycle with NO issues. I'd follow up on the advice from Roger M and make sure the Gas Cylinder is clear. If restricted it could be killing the energy the carbine relies on 'After the shot'.
Easy enough to check.

Good Luck,
Charlie-P777

ADD: Also look for Burrs on the inside rails the bolt lugs track on.
Where can I find some instructions on how to clear it? Youtube? somewhere else. thanks a million pk
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 05 2019 at 7:56pm
Originally posted by oldfart69 oldfart69 wrote:

Where can I find some instructions on how to clear it? Youtube? somewhere else. thanks a million pk


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k99HPXZMmrc
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