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7 May 2023 - Larry Ruth: The Collectibles!

Printed From: The Carbine Collector's Club
Category: The Club
Forum Name: For Sale
Forum Description: Sell your carbines, parts or items
URL: http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6579
Printed Date: Oct 03 2023 at 4:40pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: 7 May 2023 - Larry Ruth: The Collectibles!
Posted By: sleeplessnashadow
Subject: 7 May 2023 - Larry Ruth: The Collectibles!
Date Posted: Feb 26 2023 at 6:16am
*** UPDATE - 7 May 2023 ***

Fyi, all shown here are still available except for a few that may or may not be in the process of being sold. Once sold the item is removed and placed here: http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/topic6550_post57339.html#57339" rel="nofollow - Sold: Carbines from the Larry Ruth Collection

!!!! MANY CARBINES NOW 10% LOWER !!!!
(see "Estimates" below)

Please read the following before asking questions, requesting additional info, or making an offer. All inquiries and offers should include the inventory number to help avoid confusion.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
General Info
General Condition: Most as purchased by Larry. Some were collectables preserved for their history, some were Larry’s reference collection with parts exchanged.
  • Additional Info: May be available. Inquiries should be made using this forum's private message system.

  • Photos: Additional photos may be available.

  • Provenance: Provenance, history, etc. are an ongoing effort to match up. If not yet located they will be forwarded when found.

  • Certificates: Will be provided with each carbine, certifying an item is from the Larry Ruth Collection (inventory number is used for reference)

Questions
The descriptions that follow are somewhat brief and tend to be specific to the particular gun. Please submit questions or a desire to purchase by private message here on the forum.

“Estimates”
The “Estimates” are not a selling price. They are a best guess at a bare minimum for a starting point. While not a fixed selling price, estimates may still be the selling price if your offer is the only offer.

***Effective immediately, unless indicated as no discount or a value with a question mark, you can take 10% off all estimates shown here as a starting point for offers.***

Offers
Offers at 10% less than the estimated values shown are now the starting point.

Know up front those not sold here may eventually be offered on Gunbroker or by Rock Island Auctions with a starting bid lower than these estimates. You can try for a lower purchase price there but keep the competition in mind along with the fees and costs involved when using these auction sites.

  • Reasonable offers only please, unreasonable will not be considered.

  • If more than one offer is received the sale will go to the highest offer. Offers and who made them are confidential to avoid bidding wars. There is no set time limit for offers but anticipate a week or two after posted below.

  • Offers should be made using this forum's private message system. Please be patient if we don't respond immediately. We will do our best.

  • Offers made will be considered a binding commitment. Backing out may nullify all offers you make. If this becomes too much conflict the item may go to an auction house for neutrality. Please keep in mind one of the goals in offering these to you here is to avoid the various fees charged by the auction houses/sites.


Payments
Money order, cashiers check, or personal check with shipment after payment clears. Directions for which family member to make the payment out too and where to send it will be provided to the person with the highest offer, privately.

Shipment
All firearms must go to an FFL or C&R (if eligible). Shipping is at cost and paid for by the buyer. The buyer will be provided with a total once we know the address the carbine will be shipped too. All carbines will be shipped via USPS Priority Registered Mail insured. This is the most secure means possible and not to be confused with "priority mail" as sometimes it can take a little longer depending on where the shipment is going.

Parts & Accessories

The family has an eBay account for selling these items: https://www.ebay.com/usr/ruthintheoutfield" rel="nofollow - https://www.ebay.com/usr/ruthintheoutfield . If a part, accessory, book, etc. you wish to purchase is listed on their eBay account, if it has no bids, contact us here and we may be able to make it happen.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The "Seller"
This forum and those who run it are not selling these carbines. This is simply an advertisement for those being sold by Larry's family. Possession, purchases, shipping, and costs are all handled by Larry's family.

Please work with us to make this as simple and up-front as possible for them, us, and you. Please be patient with responses to your questions and offers as this is time consuming work. Normally we'll get back to you the same day but sometimes it may take a day. Thanks much....

Jim

Note: Museums have strengths and weaknesses just as we all do. Financial difficulties are what caused some of these to be sold to collectors. U.S. military museums have been closing with their collections disappearing.


Replies:
Posted By: floydthecat
Date Posted: May 05 2023 at 8:34pm
Seeing all these precious examples of experimentation with the carbine as it progressed to the final issued product is very interesting. It seems they must have tried about everything on anything before adopting the carbine as we know it today. If any one of the changes made had actually stuck in the final design, that design would be the carbine we luv and cherish today. Dual springs, various sights, different gas systems, stamped metal stocks and the list goes on.

Other calibers are certainly suited to perform in the carbine action and I have tried a few. In the end, the caliber and the design that was chosen was most certainly the best one.

Posted By: sleeplessnashadow
Date Posted: May 07 2023 at 5:50am
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#203 IBM Presentation s/n 3698680

Unknown who presented too. I.B.M hand stamp 807th serial number, large font 7-43 bbl.

Estimated Value: $6,800 (no discounts)

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#46 IBM Aberdeen Proving Grounds Springfield Armory Test Carbine s/n 3731809

Rechamberd to SCHV .224 for Aberdeen test.

Includes the other experimental muzzle brakes, bi-pod, two USGI magazines that were reformed to
accommodate the new round, and ammo. The APG tests are on the list to be found. A true piece of
carbine and military history.

War Baby vol III p 1288, fig 1337+ - Club Newsletter 343-3

Estimated Value: ?

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Posted By: sleeplessnashadow
Date Posted: May 07 2023 at 5:51am
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#75 Inland T3 s/n 0108

This carbine is from http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/modelT3.html" rel="nofollow - Inland's first T3 contract , the 108th of the 750 made and completed by
April 1943. http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/IRM1Deployment.html" rel="nofollow - 515 of which were deployed with M1 Sniperscopes during the invasion of Okinawa . An additional 60 with M1 Sniperscopes were sent elsewhere (China-Burma Theater, European Theater, Ordnance for testing).

Most of Inland T3's were scrapped in the 1950's and 1960's with their receivers cut or annealed.
Most owned by collectors have been reconstitued by welding and/or reshaped then rehardened.
Inland 0108 appears to be have escaped intact.

This one has been restored using an early M2 Sniperscope manufactured in 1945. The scope is
fully functional. No original battery, has a reproduction battery box. A modern battery can be
fitted in the battery box making for a rare functioning display.

War Baby vol III p 1071, fig 1107+

Estimated Value: ?

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#177 Inland T3 Presentation s/n X44

Unknown who presented too. Polished blued, 22 inch bbl, Model 298 Weaver scope.

Estimated Value: ?

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#172 Inland Presentation s/n XB16

Presented to R.M. Longnecker. 22" bbl, extended stock.

War Baby vol III p 1148, fig 1176+

Estimated Value: ?

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#23 Inland Presentation s/n XB77

Presented to Harry Coen, GM Corp. - Original stock broken and replaced.

War Baby vol I p 239

Estimated Value: $6,000

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#25 Inland Presentation s/n XC9

Moved  to bottom
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#77 Inland Presentation s/n XD26

Unknown who presented too. M3 mount and Weaver 330 scope, stock sanded.

War Baby vol III p 1149, fig 1178

Estimated Value: $6,500

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#26 Inland Presentation s/n XE76

Unknown who presented too. This carbine came in through the DCM program in 1964
through Letterkenny Arsenal. This accounts for the CC, but how did it get into
the Army's inventory? Maybe returned to Inland by whoever it was presented too?
Maybe the person it was intended for fell out of favor with Inland, who
forwarded it to Ordnance instead?

This carbine is in CCNL 176-2/4. The datasheet there does not match Larry's notes, which match what's on the carbine now.

Estimated Value: $6,000

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Posted By: sleeplessnashadow
Date Posted: May 07 2023 at 5:51am
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#111 National Postal Meter s/n 1450375

NPM's 363rd serial number. Underwood 12-42 bbl, early and interesting parts.

Estimated Value: $5,000 (no discounts)

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#113 National Postal Meter/Commercial Controls no s/n

Sold by Commercial Controls to veteran NPM toolmaker Eric Liebich. Includes Commercial Controls letter of sale. Larry purchased this
from Eric's son, Herbert, also employed at Commercial Controls. Some have questioned the authenticity of this letter. Since then Larry and I
have located info on Liebich's background (started at Crosman in the 30's after immigrating from Germany). Including his obituary in a
Commercial Controls employee newsetter, The Bandwagon, at the Rochester library. Underwood 4-43 bbl. The green chamber flag has
been located and is included.

War Baby vol III p 826, p 1195 fig 1218

Estimated Value: 5,000 (no discounts)

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#74 NPM/Inland NSN

No serial number or receiver markings. Letter P on front receiver ring. This is
one of the first Inland receivers provided to NPM for their initial setup before
production. RO bbl added by Larry. Stamped metal stock 1952 SA test with only 4
stocks made.

War Baby p1096 & p1285 fig 1333+

Estimated Value: $7,000

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Posted By: sleeplessnashadow
Date Posted: May 07 2023 at 5:53am
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#44 Saginaw SG s/n 8865930 (roll die error)

Not only does this carbine have an interesting roll die error, it has a very unique Winchester barrel. It has the IBM saw
cut we see on Win barrels in the wrap. It is also of a two piece design. This suggests or at least helps confirm that
that Winchester was buying other parts from the other prime contractors after their contracts were cancelled.

Mixmaster. Winchester bbl import marked.

Estimated Value: ?

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Posted By: sleeplessnashadow
Date Posted: May 07 2023 at 5:53am
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#140 Standard Products 10mm Walter Hafler conversion s/n 2103550

Walter Hafler 10mm conversion. Crack behind recoil plate. Has provenance.

War Baby vol II p 765, War Baby vol III p 1578

Estimated Value: ?

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#139 Standard Products S&W .40 S&W caliber Prototype, s/n 2220225
Choate stock. Provenance from S&W included. War Baby vol III p 1541, fig 1808, p 1649, fig 2018

Estimated Value: ?

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Posted By: sleeplessnashadow
Date Posted: May 07 2023 at 5:54am
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#47 Winchester T3 s/n 02706

Restored - includes M73B1 scope. Has bbl extension. War Baby vol III p 1075, fig 1116+

Estimated Value: ?

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Posted By: sleeplessnashadow
Date Posted: May 07 2023 at 6:32am
If you were automatically notified of an update to these posts go to the top and read the updated info. While all may appear to be the same there have been changes, additions, etc. Including a 10% reduction with estimated values.

Posted By: New2brass
Date Posted: Jul 17 2023 at 11:12am
#25 Inland Presentation s/n XC9

Presented to H.F. Howard, Chevrolet Truck Division Vice President and General Plant Manager, Flint Michigan


Estimated Value: $6,000



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Nice example of a American Swiss type 2 barrel band

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Stock has rebuild marking

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Harold F. Howard


Born November 21, 1893, in Pennsylvania

Died  January 7, 1954

Mr. Howard had a long history in the automotive trucking industry.

Vice President York Corrugation Company of  York, Pennsylvania. Made metal panels for truck bodies.

 

Executive of the Wire Wheel Corporation of Buffalo, NY.

 

 

 

 


Plant Manager of the Martin-Parry Corp, of  York, Pennsylvania, which made commercial truck bodies for companies such as Willys Overland, White, Ford, Buick, and Chevrolet.

To right, 1926 Chevrolet Truck with Martin-Parry body.

1929 he was sent to Martin-Parry in Indianapolis, Indiana and worked his way to General Manager and Vice President.

1930 the Martin-Parry corporation was bought by Chevrolet, where they retained Mr. Howard.

1937 he became the General Plant Manager of Chevrolet in Flint, Michigan.(plant number 1)

During WW2 the Chevrolet Division of General Motors Corporation was a major supplier of airplane engines and many different types of trucks, armored vehicles, and parts. One of the most interesting items was the DUKW amphibious vehicle.


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In late 1944 Mr. Howard was moving on from General Motors, and for his contributions to the war effort, he was presented Inland XC 9 on August 17, 1944.

 

In December 1944, he was appointed as the Executive Vice President in charge of manufacturing of the Fruehauf Trailer Co. which was also a WW2 contractor.

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Examples bellow of trailers of the 1940s

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1947 Mr. Howard was president of an industrial and business consultant firm he established; the Harold F. Howard company based in Detroit.

At the time of his death in 1954, he was an executive at Ford Motor Co., responsible for over-all direction and coordination of the Aircraft Engine Division in Chicago that was engaged with making engines for the Air Force.

A member of the Moslem Temple Shrine and the Knights Templar, he was a member of Washington Lodge, Free and Accepted Masons in Buffalo, NY.

Mr. Howard also belonged to the Society of Automotive Engineers, the Recess Club, the Detroit Athletic Club and held the highest award of Scouting, the Silver Beaver.

If you are interested in making an offer on this carbine and would like more high resolution pictures, or any questions, please contact Jim or me.


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http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/club-assistance-saginaw-receivers_topic4716.html" rel="nofollow - Club Survey Saginaw Receivers


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