Reasons, because we can I guess and it might afford the opportunity to load and fire boat tail projectiles. The Tok is a slightly longer round than the 9mm allowing a stiffer powder charge and shorter than a 7.62 x 33 allowing loading of the boat tail profile? 

Stay tuned and if you have any suggestions or warnings I have not considered, feel free to chime in.

   Here's my 2¢...

I have everything I need to try this. The base and rim dimensions mimic the 9 x 19 and I already have a very successfully converted carbine to 9mm. The only thing required to take this leap is a barrel and I have one. I have done a little research and do understand the Tok might be troublesome to reload. I also know it can be reloaded. The trick might be the projectile choice. I have fired some seriously monster loads from the 9mm, as in 146-grain 350 Legend projectiles over strong charges of AA#7 without showing any signs of danger. The carbine actions were proofed at around 48,000 psi using a 150-grain slug at that. That oal would be too long for the 30-carbine to feed, but it won’t for the Tok oal. I don’t plan to throw a 150-grain slug in it first to see what happens, but I do plan to play with projectiles, which should help with the reloading issues using the stubby light-weight projectiles. Spec 110-grain carbine projectiles are loaded in Tok and I have some published loading data for that.

There is going to be a bit of freebore in this chamber, which will allow the loading of longer projectiles. It remains to be seen how this will affect function and accuracy. I am 100% certain that I can make it cycle…..we’ll see what happens after that.

Developing a 9mm conversion was a somewhat long, arduous and at times aggravating project. Even giving-up at points along the way. We learned a lot of things in the process. The road to get the carbine to cycle at lower pressures at the gas-port has been traveled and we know it can be done. 

Loading the longer 110-grain projectiles goes easily and they follow the neck. These cases were formed with a set of Lee dies and the neck was not at all difficult to form. It will depend on the quality of the brass and .223 might be easier to work with. I did not have to ream the case mouth on these and after loading, neck diameter is .334-.335 right on spec. 223/5.56 brass is a slightly smaller diameter than the TOK, but I suppose it will fire-form to the chamber.

I have a supply of the 86-grain Mauser projectiles and will give them a try at my next session, but I am pleased with what I built so far.

I have the Tok conversion up-n-running. Having been thru the process of making a 9mm run, making this leap was really not much of a leap, only a step. Currently hand loading for it due to the scarcity and price of 7.62 Tokarev.  Not as high as carbine ammo, but more than 9mm.

There is really not much to be gained by doing this, mostly because I had the stuff and the time. If 7.62 Tok was as abundant as it once was, it would be a more worthwhile to perform this conversion. Not much to it, a re-chambered barrel, modified bolt, gas piston and nut as well as one specific 9mm extractor. Accuracy as good as me at short ranges. 

 Did we discuss bullet diameter? I know the cartridge supposedly uses .312" bullets, but I have a half-dozen 85 gr. bullets I pulled from surplus 7.62x25 cartridges and I seem to recall them being .307" or so.

The re-chambered carbine barrel will have quite a bit of freebore as the carbine case is 33 and the TOK is 25. Conversations concerning freebore are all over the place concerning it’s effects and some chambers have freebore by design. In this case, it does not appear to be a major issue. The short ranges I have shot so far indicates it patterns like my 30-calibers. Un-chambered carbine barrels are available, if one wishes to make the investment. So far, I am content with a re-chambered carbine barrel. 

Don’t think I ever responded to this, but I will now.

I used a SG barrel with an ME of 1.5, which had been abused by Bubba. Darn good barrel, but he had (for some reason) filled-off the makers mark. I used a 30-Mauser finish reamer, which is the same chamber as the 7.62 Tok. Not much out there concerning Tok head space and I just head spaced it based on my gut. I think .005-.006 is the reasonable target, but it’s difficult to measure on cases that head space on a shoulder. I used slack between the rear of the right bolt lug and the receiver recess as a judgement. In reality, it seems that head space can be rather liberal like the 30-carbine or 9mm. I shot for .010 based on the bolts I have. Reaming was fairly easy as all one is doing is removing the difference between the diameter of the 30-carbine and Tok case diameter. Head space can easily be adjusted by moving the position of the shoulder on the brass by adjusting the sizing die. Reaming an existing carbine chamber will result in a good bit of freebore since the carbine case is 33mm as compared to the Tok case of 25mm. This turns out to be a hidden blessing as you can leave the neck longer for better case retention. It does not appear to have a great affect on function or rough accuracy. I have not performed any serious accuracy testing yet.

I am loading at a level about 75% below a 30-carbine load. 13-grains of H108 is the Hodgdon spec for 30-carbine and it runs fine at 11-grains.

Accuracy with the 110-grain Extreme bullet is completely acceptable at pistol ranges and about as good as me and a 30-caliber carbine. Lighter projectiles not so much, but work with various weights and profiles will continue. Commercial ammo that cycles the action is available. S&B published velocities of 1650fps will deliver a MV approaching 1900fps from a carbine barrel. 

Ballistically it’s not going to be a bit better than a 7.62 x 33, but with the right projectile (maybe a spitzer) it will get closer. One often hears about the desire to shoot an alternate projectile, here’s your chance. 

Not gonna say much more here, but a few of you have indicated an interest. PM me if you’d like some additional technical information.

Since you did the grunt work, I'll rechamber a "surplus" plainfield takeoff and have a "M1 carbine" in the same caliber as my Russian TT33 and Semiauto PPS43.

Then if we are ever "invaded" by North Korea or the Russians I can use their ammo! ;)

I believe there is a Werle video on U-tube on his Tok conversion.

My partner in crime!

03 is the machinist in our experimental adventures. I dream-up stuff for him to do and he fixes what I mess-up and makes it work.

I continue to work on loads, but have determined that the carbine will cycle on over-the-counter commercial ammo, which is still available. I prefer to avoid the communist-bloc stuff. Much of it is suspect corrosive and Berdan primed. I prefer Boxer to reuse the brass.

One often reads about a desire to shoot various bullet profiles from a 30-caliber carbine. The choices of what can be fired from the carbine action is limited by it's length and what will fit in the magazine and feed. The shorter length of the 7.62 x 25 facilitates the loading of various projectile weights and profiles. The case capacity is about 80% of the 7.62 x 33, still plenty of room to load-up to 7.62 x 33 charges and not compress the charge. One can blow-up anything if they try, but using 80% full 7.62 x 33 charges in the TOK cases have shown no signs of over-pressure stress. If anything, it shoots a bit milder that Sellier & Bellot commercial loads. Pictured here are some 125-grain 300AAC pulled projectiles built to an OAL of 1.52. They feed and chamber well from a 30-caliber magazine. Also shown are some .223 cases after they are trimmed and ran thru the 7.62 x 25 sizing die. The issue with a re-chambered 30-caliber carbine barrel is the leade remaining in the chamber. The longer the OAL of the TOK load, the less this becomes a deterring factor. Necks can be left longer than the spec 7.62 x 25 case, which enhances tension and improves accuracy by taking-up the leade. I have not got around to any chrono work yet, been working on functional loads that deliver reasonable accuracy. The 110 and 125-grain loads have proven to be as accurate as the average 30-caliber carbine at the distances I have tested. The lighter 85-93 grain loads....not so much, but longer necks improve accuracy.

You might not gain much by building a 7.62 x 25 Tokarev to 7.62 x 33 performance, but it is a new playground that facilitates a much broader range of what you can shoot. The brass is easily made, it loads with the same components as the 7.62 x 33 and it's a great project for fighting boredom.

  Your post set my worn out mental gears in motion.

  I cut a .223/5.56 case off just behind the shoulder then trimmed it to 1.285". I then ran it into a 7.62x25 die until I had a neck at an arbitrary length, and VOILA'!! It's either a 7.62x25 Long, or a .30 Carbine BB (Big Brother)-

  Would it be possible to run the 7.62x25 reamer in further and create a longer chamber? I'm guessing that if the 7.62x25 feeds, then this one surely would since it's longer.

  I know there's not a lot of practical use, but the fatter case could potentially add another 100 fps, especially if the neck were kept short as in the 7.62x25, and brass is easily made out of abundant .223/5.56 brass. I should've formed the case with the same length neck as the Tok, I may do that tomorrow.

  Edit-

 I had to go outside to close the chicken coop, so while I was that close to the reloading room, I fixed it.

  

 And FYI water capacity of the larger case increased by exactly 2.0 grs. (21.6 gr. vs. 23.6 gr.) for a gain of roughly 10%.  

  

OAL of the reformed case is not critical unless you make it longer than a carbine round. The TOK sizing die can create a neck as long as you care to make it and it chambers and feeds perfectly.

This way, you don’t have to create a new chamber, just leave the neck long. I will dig up a picture here soon. The real key to accuracy is leaving a long neck to cover the leade and it solves the neck-tension problem as well. None of this is likely to produce a round better than a 30-carbine, but it’s fun and facilitates the use of any number of bullet profiles and styles that can’t be fired from a 7.62 x 33 action. 

10-gr. H108, 110-grain X-treme, mv 1650, pf 182

10-gr. H108, 125-grain Spitzer, mv 1722, pf 215

10.5-gr. W296, 110-grain X-treme, mv 1777, pf 195 

I mention power factor as a comparison to 30-carbine at 2,000fps, which works out to 220. Just as a measure of how bad I might be beating the carbine up. 

I generally load my 30-carbine stuff in the area of 1800fps. It won’t be much of a stretch to load the 7.62 x 25 up to that velocity.

Anyways……just information in case anyone is interested.

With the gas port location it may make cycling interesting. 

Felt recoil (power factor) and bolt thrust might not be directly and mathematically comparable, but it has to be a good indicator of the strength of what one is shooting, if only ballpark. Besides, PF is much easier to calculate😁.

March 30, 2022 35 Whelen wrote:

"Nothing has approached the pain-in-the-butt factor of reloading like the 7.62x25, not even the 32-20, 38-40 or 44-40. It is very difficult to start seating a bullet straight and keep it straight with that short neck."

I presume this references cartridge concentricity.  If so, once the bullet is seated would it be reasonable to remedy "crooked seated" bullet w/ the Hornady Lock-N-Load Concentricity Tool?

This configuration allows one to load and shoot any .308 projectile they are willing to try as long as cartridge OAL does not exceed what the magazine will accept and that’s 7.62 x 33 OAL. 

Try the 357 Sig. What a PITA!

You will be able to over power the mechanics of a 30 Carbine with 357 Sig loads. It operates at 40,000 PSI with U.S. loads and 44,000 PSI with European loads. I run European loads in my Glock 31 with 125 and 147 grain Hornady projectiles. 

Both of those loads will develop more bolt thrust than a 30 Carbine was designed to handle.

Oh yes. My partner in crime 03man did as well. Don took a little different approach. He does not hand load and wanted a chamber to specifically match the Tokarev. I left the free bore in my barrel chamber, which allows me to load longer and use longer projectiles. Don worked some magic and built an insert for his barrel to 7.62 x 25 specs.

Simply re-chambering a 30-carbine barrel leaves free bore and with commercial ammo using light projectiles, it’s just not that accurate. I can build cases all way out to 30-carbine oal, which takes up the free bore.  Both our conversions are as accurate as any 30-carbine we have. I shoot 1-inch groups at 25-yards. 

If one wants to use commercial ammo, I would suggest acquiring a un-chambered carbine barrel and chamber it for Tokarev.

But…..it is fun to shoot, brass is easy to make and mine feeds from a spec. USGI magazine. It is a reloader's delight and allows the use of about any .308 projectile.

My favorite load chrono’s at around 1725fps, but that can easily be pushed a bit.