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Hinden-Fleishman Curved Barrel Extension

Printed From: The Carbine Collector's Club
Category: The Club
Forum Name: Carbine Accessories
Forum Description: USGI, Foreign, and Commercial items
URL: http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5952
Printed Date: Feb 06 2023 at 12:08pm
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Topic: Hinden-Fleishman Curved Barrel Extension
Posted By: Anders
Subject: Hinden-Fleishman Curved Barrel Extension
Date Posted: Dec 28 2021 at 10:54pm
Hinden-Fleishman Curved Barrel Extension for the M1 Carbine

This is an interesting device manufactured by the Hinden-Fleishman Co. of Bala Cynwood, PA, which manufactured M1icon Carbine blank-firing adapters that used an identical spring catch and mounting collar. (Ref. "War Baby! Comes Home The U.S. Caliber .30 Carbine" Vol. II by Larry L. Ruth (1993)).
Less than 100 of these strange accessories were manufactured during the 1960's.
I hope someone in our Forum has additional information on this device, such as where the Curved Barrel was in service. History. The existence of any TM or User Guide. Carrying Case. Ammunition used: Standard or reduced load and so forth.

Any information will be most welcome. Thank you.

Anders

https://strandholm.dk/transit/photos/Collectibles/Collection/M1-Carbine-Curved-Barrel_A.jpg" rel="nofollow - https://strandholm.dk/transit/photos/Collectibles/Collection/M1-Carbine-Curved-Barrel_A.jpg
http://strandholm.dk/transit/photos/Collectibles/Collection/M1-Carbine-Curved-Barrel_B.jpg" rel="nofollow - https://strandholm.dk/transit/photos/Collectibles/Collection/M1-Carbine-Curved-Barrel_B.jpg
http://strandholm.dk/transit/photos/Collectibles/Collection/M1-Carbine-Curved-Barrel_B.jpg" rel="nofollow - https://strandholm.dk/transit/photos/Collectibles/Collection/M1-Carbine-Curved-Barrel_C.jpg
http://strandholm.dk/transit/photos/Collectibles/Collection/M1-Carbine-Curved-Barrel_B.jpg" rel="nofollow - https://strandholm.dk/transit/photos/Collectibles/Collection/M1-Carbine-Curved-Barrel_D.jpg




Replies:
Posted By: W5USMC
Date Posted: Dec 29 2021 at 1:08am
Commercial made barrel extension. Discussed recently on the CMP forum.
http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=291274" rel="nofollow - Barrel extension to shoot around corners?!?! - CMP Forums (thecmp.org)

 



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Wayne
USMC Retired
NRA Life Member


Posted By: Anders
Date Posted: Dec 29 2021 at 4:58am
Thanks for coming back to me, Wayne.
As mentioned it was manufactured by Hinden-Fleishman Co. in the 1960's - but who was the contractor and what was the purpose?
I am dying Wink to retrieve some additional information.
I have not been able to find any info on the company itself. I doubt it is still in business...(?)
Best,
Anders



Posted By: New2brass
Date Posted: Dec 29 2021 at 9:37am

Mr Hinden, the H in HF, was taking orders for the around the corner device. in the mid 70s. The attachment to the barrel was similar to the The Dutch blank firing devices, made by NWM of Holland

The HF Co blank fire attachments started showing up in the mid 80s. They were much heavier but had a similar lock mechanism to the NWM devices.

this is a picture from June 1987 CCNL 127 showing two 45 degree and one 90 degree
as well as their copy of the M8 grenade launcher.
If anyone has on of the M8 launchers please post pics of the markings


The German Krummlauf device was clamped to the barrel. It also had gas bleed holes and a sighting system.

We had reports of the HF Co around the corner device weighing in at almost 2 pounds! The HF Co device you have no sighting method and may be looking for your front sight when it blows off.

I suspect the orders for these reflect why we do not see them in quantity.

The US did experiment with a curved device for  the M3a1 Greasegun post war and Korea
http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/uploads/10/MuzzleAroundCornerGrease.jpeg




There is a Forgotten Weapons video on the Krummlauf, I believe Ian says that the bullets would fragment, so it would spray pieces.

The Myth Busters did an episode where they bent barrels. I wish they did a test showing the effects after 10 or 20 feet



for more info:
HF CO CCNLs 88,92,96, 127
NWM blank fire device CCNL 14


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Posted By: Anders
Date Posted: Dec 29 2021 at 11:34am
Thank you for sharing, New2brass , especially the picture of the two models, as well as the M8 Grenade Launcher. As far as I understand this,  HF manufactured these as well(?) The M8 was long removed from service so for what purpose?
You refer to "HF CO CCNLs 88,92,96, 127" at the bottom  of your reply.
Can you tell me where I can find that reference and read more about the HF Curved Barrel?
Thank you!
Anders


Posted By: Anders
Date Posted: Dec 29 2021 at 1:10pm
It has come to my attention, that the HF Curved Barrel was soley used with reduced load ammo.
Anybody possess info on that type of ammo?



Posted By: Matt_X
Date Posted: Dec 29 2021 at 1:45pm
That is shorthand for Carbine Club newsletter's 88, 92, 96 and 127 have some information about the HF Company.

Order info here: http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/sale-of-ccnl-back-issues-quick-index_topic5769.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/sale-of-ccnl-back-issues-quick-index_topic5769.html

Seems to me a neat idea but in reality a very special, limited use accessory.
It requires knowing ahead of time whether the enemy is around a left corner or a right corner.
It also requires really tight work with team mates who can cover straight ahead and other contingencies.

The tank crew explanation for the grease gun development effort seems plausible.  For street fighting it could be as much or more of a liability than a help..  maybe in a defensive only position.

I remember seeing the M3 submachine version pictured in one of Colby's books in the public library when I was a kid.  



Posted By: New2brass
Date Posted: Dec 29 2021 at 2:04pm
The HF Co devices were evidently made for the early carbine collectors.
The price for the around the corner device was 35 dollars at the time. Most would consider it a hefty sum considering the cost of a carbine at the time.

The HF Co. around the corner device pointed up, so you could just tilt the carbine.
The Greasegun device had a lock collar on the threaded end of the barrel, so it would be a quick adjustment.

Anders: I know the blank devices used a low powered blank. Can you cite where you heard that the around the corner device used a reduced load ammo?

I am guessing you have one of these, how about posting some pictures!


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Posted By: Anders
Date Posted: Dec 30 2021 at 5:04am
H-F Curved Barrel Extension - Accessories and Reference material

I am doing some research on Information regarding accessories, such as a Storage Box and/or Carrying Case and a User Guide.

If anybody can help please come forth and reply to this thread or send me a (PM) message.
Thank you in advance.



Posted By: Anders
Date Posted: Dec 30 2021 at 5:11am
New2Brass,
I already posted photos of the H-F Curved Barrel.
In regard to the reduced load ammo, a friend of mine in Montana told me he got that information from a friend years ago, that had a similar H-F Curved Barrel. I have no photos unfortunately. Wish I had!


Posted By: Anders
Date Posted: Dec 30 2021 at 5:15am
Thanks Matt_X, for that valuable information!


Posted By: New2brass
Date Posted: Dec 30 2021 at 9:41am
Originally posted by Anders Anders wrote:

New2Brass,
I already posted photos of the H-F Curved Barrel.
In regard to the reduced load ammo, a friend of mine in Montana told me he got that information from a friend years ago, that had a similar H-F Curved Barrel. I have no photos unfortunately. Wish I had!


Those are the auction pictures. If you won that auction post some pics on the carbine when you receive it!

As to the ammo, the curved barrel absorbs a lot of the energy when bouncing on the the curve. It is enough that there were reports (on the German device) that the bullets fragmented.
So the idea of a reduced load in actual uses seems to be odd.
However as the device is a novelty and commercial made there may have been special bullets. This gets back to my comment of losing your front sight when it gets ripped off.

You could try squib loads, however... the bore is approximately .40 and when the barrel bends it may be less than the .308 dimension of the bullet. If the bullet gets stuck in the barrel you may have trouble getting it out.
Worse, if you do not know the bullet is stuck a subsequent round may split your barrel.

Just my .02 cents


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Posted By: New2brass
Date Posted: Jan 16 2022 at 9:09am
I mentioned above about possible problems with this device and the front sight.

Here is a thread questioning the front sight getting loose with a grenade launcher with low power loads.
http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/front-sight-loose-from-firing-rifle-grenades_topic5979.html#47117" rel="nofollow -
http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/front-sight-loose-from-firing-rifle-grenades_topic5979.html#47117" rel="nofollow - http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/front-sight-loose-from-firing-rifle-grenades_topic5979.html#47117


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Posted By: Anders
Date Posted: Jan 16 2022 at 9:45am
Thank you New2Brass, for sharing.
It seems the M8 Launcher did cause severe problems when used on the M1 Carbine.
I know they ware taken out of service and this is obviously the reason.
Best,
Anders


Posted By: blackfish
Date Posted: Jan 16 2022 at 2:28pm
I thought it was broken stocks. But of course I wasn't there.


Posted By: GoldenGuy
Date Posted: Jan 31 2022 at 1:02pm
That picture of the grenade launcher is not what the hfco one looks like.

they also made a blank fire attachment




Warbaby three has the grenade launcher and the curves barrels near the back of the book


*EDIT*Pics moved. See WB pgs 1647-1648



Posted By: Anders
Date Posted: Jan 31 2022 at 1:38pm
Thanks for sharing.
Yhat is indeed an interesting item!
I did not know that H-F made BFD's for the M1 Carbine.
Anders


Posted By: New2brass
Date Posted: Nov 17 2022 at 7:22pm
http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/uploads/5600/HFCoCollection.jpg

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Posted By: GotSnlB28
Date Posted: Nov 17 2022 at 8:10pm
I'm going to guess that a group like that could only come from one collection. Very neat.


Posted By: Anders
Date Posted: Nov 18 2022 at 3:30am
Thank you New2brass for sharing this photo.
A very neat and impressive collection!


Posted By: New2brass
Date Posted: Nov 21 2022 at 8:50am
Yes, they are from a prolific collection. They will be going to an auction block, but offers will be considered.


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Posted By: Anders
Date Posted: Nov 21 2022 at 10:05am
Dan, that is most intersting.
Would you be able to reveal how and where?
What should I do being able to place a bid or make an offer on the single items in this collection?
Hope you can guide me.
Best,
Anders


Posted By: New2brass
Date Posted: Jan 12 2023 at 3:07pm
http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/uploads/5600/HFCoCollection.jpg
Yep, they were from the Larry Ruth Collection.
The three on the left are experimental and we are accepting offers

Edit.  Dyslexia 


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Posted By: Anders
Date Posted: Jan 12 2023 at 3:25pm
So the 90 degree Curved Barrel, the HFCo Grenade Launcher and the HFCo BFA were considered Experimental?


Posted By: New2brass
Date Posted: Jan 12 2023 at 3:30pm
oops, left side

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Posted By: Anders
Date Posted: Jan 12 2023 at 4:02pm
Sorry Confused...I would swear it said "right".
That's odd, but thanks for mentioning it.



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