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Spare Parts to keep on hand?

Printed From: The Carbine Collector's Club
Category: The Club
Forum Name: Safety/ Accuracy/Shooting/Ammunition/Care and Maintenance
Forum Description: What to Check, Reloading, Tips for Accuracy, Competitive/Recreational Shooting
URL: http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5777
Printed Date: Apr 17 2024 at 7:10pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Spare Parts to keep on hand?
Posted By: Rebel92
Subject: Spare Parts to keep on hand?
Date Posted: Oct 08 2021 at 5:28pm
howdy folks, 

Just would like some expert opinions on the spare parts I should keep around. I already have several extractors, but curious as to what others I should stock up on. I’m referring to backups for my shooter inland, which is already a mix master. 





Replies:
Posted By: floydthecat
Date Posted: Oct 08 2021 at 6:02pm
Bolt guts like firing-pin, extractor spring and plunger (make those plural in case you lose them). Anything with springs probably needs a spare spring for everything on hand. A bolt as well maybe and pins….hammer, trigger and housing, anything you can likely lose at some point.

I’d just lay in the bushes and shop for small parts like this as they present themselves. Don’t get trapped into trying to correct it, shooters are shooters. Everybody has their own idea about a stash, but not much else is going to be problematic.

RELOAD OR BUY MORE AMMO!


Posted By: Rebel92
Date Posted: Oct 08 2021 at 6:09pm
thanks Floyd, I have several springs spare extractor/ejector springs and the plungers. I’ll add some more sear springs and stuff to my list. Pretty much all the springs. 

And would you recommend a round bolt for my shooter, or does it not make that much of a difference? And would I need to purchase a headspace gauge to check it out on a new bolt?

And what about another slide? 

I’ve caught the bug big time and def need to slow down. I’ll heed your advice and buy them when I see a good deal. Mine functions great, but wanna make sure I don’t get caught with my pants down. I have TONS of ammo for it and am currently accumulating the items needed to begin reloading 


Posted By: Rebel92
Date Posted: Oct 08 2021 at 6:15pm
So would you suggest a round bolt? Or does it not make a difference? And would I need to purchase a headspace gauge to test with a new bolt??


Posted By: W5USMC
Date Posted: Oct 08 2021 at 6:28pm
A thread on the subject from MILSURPS 

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=73388&highlight=spare+parts" rel="nofollow - What Spare Parts Should You Have ? (milsurps.com)


-------------
Wayne
USMC Retired
NRA Life Member


Posted By: Rebel92
Date Posted: Oct 08 2021 at 6:33pm
okay awesome. Where can I find a headspace gauge that doesn’t cost my first born child? Or do I only need a go/no-go/field or all 3?


Posted By: W5USMC
Date Posted: Oct 08 2021 at 6:51pm
Unless you are changing the barrel then I say all you need is the field gauge, and recommend a "Forster" brand gauge since you do not need to disassemble the bolt to use it. 

-------------
Wayne
USMC Retired
NRA Life Member


Posted By: Rebel92
Date Posted: Oct 08 2021 at 7:14pm
But what about changing out the bolt? Wouldn’t need a headspace gauge for that? Excuse my dumb questions, tryin to learn


Posted By: floydthecat
Date Posted: Oct 08 2021 at 7:35pm
Originally posted by Rebel92 Rebel92 wrote:

But what about changing out the bolt? Wouldn’t need a headspace gauge for that? Excuse my dumb questions, tryin to learn

Nope, don’t waste your money. A gauge only gives you the limits. You can exactly measure your head space with an empty sized case. See if the bolt closes and rotates on the case. Add strips of scotch tape one layer at a time trimming it neatly to match the base until you reach no-go. Measure this case with the tape attached and you have your true head space. Depending on who’s field gauge is discussed, out-of-spec. can be 1.299 to 1.302. If you are under that…...it passed the field gauge test.

In reality, SAAMI allows from 1.280 to 1.302. Thats .022 of slop. Many here will support the fact that the carbine will be perfectly ok with head space exceeding 1.302 and I’ve handled some that would rattle on a 1.302 gauge. I have handled commercials that routinely left the factory at as much as 1.310.

You can find head space threads all over the forums. Collectors condemn carbines that close on a field gauge, but they can have lots of life left, particularly if you reload and keep brass length on the longer side.

That is a whole ‘nuther discussion. 

Before I get too far and risk getting beat-up, always consider short head space to be more dangerous than long head space. One should always insure the bolt will rotate and lock at no less than 1.290 and most like from 1.292-1.295. You can use the same method for that too.


Posted By: Rebel92
Date Posted: Oct 08 2021 at 8:22pm
so all I’ll need is some empties, scotch tape, and a caliper?


Posted By: W5USMC
Date Posted: Oct 08 2021 at 8:45pm
Agree with floydthecat, although I would rather use the gauge. A Forster Field gauge measures 1.299 and a USGI Field gauge measure 1.302. In my earlier post I should have said there is no need for a Go gauge unless changing a barrel, for bolt swaps I only use a Field. 
Think I paid $32 for the Forster gauge from Midway. Paid much more for my USGI gauge when I finally found one.


-------------
Wayne
USMC Retired
NRA Life Member


Posted By: bonnie
Date Posted: Oct 08 2021 at 8:52pm
I cut a set of feeler gauges to use with the go headspace gauge. Cut each gauge to fit inside the bolt face, then placing the headspace gauge on top of that for a measurement. I cut each piece of gauge so the I could see what size it was, ie: .001 or .005, etc. Keep these pieces with the headspace gauge. I can get a pretty close measurement of the exact headspace of any particular carbine.

The thin gauges can be cut with scissors. The thicker ones I used tin snips then smoothed the edges.


Posted By: Rebel92
Date Posted: Oct 08 2021 at 8:53pm
I cannot find a field gauge anywhere. Let me know if y’all know where to look!


Posted By: W5USMC
Date Posted: Oct 08 2021 at 8:58pm
https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/00070hg0030f/30-carbine-field-length-head-space-gauge" rel="nofollow - 30 Carbine Field Length Head Space Gauge by Forster (midsouthshooterssupply.com)

-------------
Wayne
USMC Retired
NRA Life Member


Posted By: Rebel92
Date Posted: Oct 08 2021 at 9:08pm
nice and cheap just the way I like it. Thanks. Any pros/cons about bolt type? (Flat vs round) I only have flat bolts so no experience with round 


Posted By: floydthecat
Date Posted: Oct 09 2021 at 8:14am
The gauge is invaluable in a quick determination of a carbine action and I am not suggesting they are not worth the expense, but they won’t give you a completely accurate assessment. A Field gauge of 1.302 will tell you the action is no longer than 1.302, but it might be 1.301. Failure on a gauge of 1.299 Would dictate an out-of-spec. action, yet there is .003 more life left if you grab a gauge of 1.302. But….that’s the accepted manner of action evaluation.

It’s sort of all academic to me anyway. Nobody has yet produced evidence of a ruptured carbine case due to long head space. The case is fully supported 360-degrees. I have read about case ruptures that were later determined to be due to faulty ammunition, not the carbine.


Posted By: floydthecat
Date Posted: Oct 09 2021 at 8:26am
Originally posted by Rebel92 Rebel92 wrote:

nice and cheap just the way I like it. Thanks. Any pros/cons about bolt type? (Flat vs round) I only have flat bolts so no experience with round 

The round bolt will contain all the updates/changes implemented during manufacture. The general rule-of-thumb is to use the latest issue (type) of any component to get the safest and most reliable version. But, parts interchange forward and backward. The only time I suspected a round bolt might have been superior to a flat bolt was the increase in size and shape of the chin on the round bolt. Maybe it will help feeding issues, but I can’t actually prove it. I did find a round bolt seems to have solved a problem once, but a fresher flat bolt might have worked just as well. I usually don’t prefer one over the other in a shooter. The price, fitment and condition dictates what I use.


Posted By: Rebel92
Date Posted: Oct 09 2021 at 10:13am
thanks Floyd. Can you tell me what a fair price for a stripped or even a complete bolt would be? I entered the carbine market during the pandemic so I don’t know what “reasonable” prices are. Thanks again for your wealth of knowledge. I ask lots of questions but pick up quickly 


Posted By: Rebel92
Date Posted: Oct 09 2021 at 10:17am
Is this USGI? Never purchased from them

https://www.sarcoinc.com/m1-carbine-bolt-stripped/" rel="nofollow - https://www.sarcoinc.com/m1-carbine-bolt-stripped/


Posted By: floydthecat
Date Posted: Oct 09 2021 at 10:48am
That is a commercial bolt. I would not consider it. When you see “new” used to describe a part, you can bet it’s commercial. The low price is also a red flag. 

Welcome to the world of figuring all this out! It never hurts to ask.

Some parts from Sarco will be ok such as pins, screws and some springs. 


Posted By: Rebel92
Date Posted: Oct 09 2021 at 10:52am
I figured after seeing the price. Any website I may not have discovered yet, or is GB, eBay about my best bets?


Posted By: floydthecat
Date Posted: Oct 09 2021 at 11:10am
Both places, as well as other auction sites and WTB\WTS sections of forums, are good places just to look-and-learn what things are selling for. For sure, stay current with the marketing (for sale) section here on this forum. You will usually get an honest deal from a forum member.


Posted By: Jond41403
Date Posted: Oct 09 2021 at 2:07pm
if you're going to be doing a lot of shooting, I would also suggest a spare sear. When they get worn, problems start. Would also invest in a couple recoil springs. The best place to get the recoil springs is on eBay from fellow member Ric player who is a great trusted seller and will be guaranteed original usgi. I would also invest in a nice L-shaped chamber brush because you want to keep the chamber especially clean.hth


Posted By: Rebel92
Date Posted: Oct 09 2021 at 3:59pm
I do have a 90 degree chamber brush and several recoil springs 


Posted By: Rebel92
Date Posted: Oct 11 2021 at 2:19pm
I am so impatient, I have been scouring the web searching for a spare bolt. Cheapest bolts I can find are around $150. Is that about the "Going" Rate? And I can use the type 6 (or as the listing site says, "M2 not M1") slide with my m1 carbine, correct? I have found a couple of the type 6 slides for around $80


Posted By: W5USMC
Date Posted: Oct 11 2021 at 2:32pm
Yes a type 6 slide will work with an M1 carbine. Bolts are usually priced according to manufacturer and condition. $150 for a complete bolt sounds about right. You should be able to find a stripped bolt a bit cheaper. 

-------------
Wayne
USMC Retired
NRA Life Member


Posted By: Rebel92
Date Posted: Oct 11 2021 at 4:03pm
It seems the only ones I can find are complete bolts or uncomplete but a similar price. 


Posted By: Rebel92
Date Posted: Oct 13 2021 at 2:33pm
Update, I have a field gauge and spare bolt on the way

 I cant seem to find clear instructions on proper usage.

 Do I want the Field gauge to close, or not close? Seems to be an elusive topic unless my google skills are lacking. 


Posted By: floydthecat
Date Posted: Oct 13 2021 at 3:03pm
The action should not close on a field gauge. Using a gutted bolt of course, unless you obtain a gauge modified for use on a loaded bolt.


Posted By: W5USMC
Date Posted: Oct 13 2021 at 3:05pm
Remove the slide, leave Bolt in the receiver in open position, insert the field gauge into the chamber, attempt to close the bolt on the gauge, it should Not lock closed on the field gauge.

-------------
Wayne
USMC Retired
NRA Life Member


Posted By: Rebel92
Date Posted: Oct 13 2021 at 3:08pm
Yes, i ordered the Forester Field so it can be tested while the bolt is intact. as long as it doesnt go all the way into battery I am good? Or do I not want it to even begin to rotate downwards? 


Posted By: Rebel92
Date Posted: Oct 13 2021 at 3:09pm
thanks. as long as it doesnt go fully into battery is considered "Passing?" or what exactly? 


Posted By: W5USMC
Date Posted: Oct 13 2021 at 3:13pm
Yes as long as it does not completely close. Also see below picture.


-------------
Wayne
USMC Retired
NRA Life Member


Posted By: floydthecat
Date Posted: Oct 13 2021 at 3:16pm
You will feel much better if it doesn’t try to rotate. Pressure is a subjective quantity when it comes to head spacing. Slight-pressure to rotate can mean different things to different people. If it tries to rotate with little or no thumb-assist, it’s on the edge of failing.


Posted By: Rebel92
Date Posted: Oct 13 2021 at 3:25pm
excellent, thank you. What are the odds of the bolt I purchased not headspacing properly? Just curious. 


Posted By: Rebel92
Date Posted: Oct 13 2021 at 3:28pm
okay sounds good. so I actually just want it to touch it without beginning to rotate. think I understand. 


Posted By: Matt_X
Date Posted: Oct 13 2021 at 3:49pm
"If it tries to rotate with little or no thumb-assist, it’s on the edge of failing."

Having just done this using your tape method, that's a great description.
I cheated a little. First I used masking tape as it let me get close the go/no go range to something like 2.94 to 3.04"   Then redid it using a stack of scatch tape starting around 2.94   and by 2.97 it wasn't going to fully rotate even with moderate pressure.

It will make sense when you do it. 


Odds of it passing?  I bet the odds are heavily in your favor unless mating surfaces are really worn.



Posted By: Rebel92
Date Posted: Oct 13 2021 at 3:52pm
guess i need a caliper for the tape method?


Posted By: floydthecat
Date Posted: Oct 13 2021 at 4:00pm
A Harbor Freight model is inexpensive and good enough. Different brands of tape may vary in thickness, but most I have measured are like 1.5 thousandths.

I considered the use of tape pretty cheesy, until I watched a video of a Smith head spacing a bolt-action target rifle using the same technique. And he was after 1-2 thousandths of space….not 22. 

There are other ways to perform the measurement. You can do it like you would measure an M1 or M14. Feeler gauges between the rear of the right lug and the recess wall added to your case length.


Posted By: Matt_X
Date Posted: Oct 13 2021 at 4:02pm
Yes.
Not knowing how much the tape compresses, I measured before and after.  Didn't seem to change much.

If it wasn't mentioned, for the tape method the bolt needs to be disassembled.  That way the extractor is not trying to grab a thick rim and also you won't be fighting the ejector. 
I did it because I wanted an answer right away and I have everything needed on hand.
Having a machined gage that allows measurement with the bolt assembled could be real handy in any number of situations where bolt disassembly isn't practical.  I wouldn't feel bad about that purchase at all.


Posted By: Rebel92
Date Posted: Oct 13 2021 at 4:37pm
https://www.harborfreight.com/hand-tools/measuring-marking-layout/calipers-micrometer/6-in-composite-digital-caliper-63586.html" rel="nofollow - 6 in. Composite Digital Caliper (harborfreight.com)  

is this the el-cheapo you had in mind? anything that price has me curious. 


Posted By: Matt_X
Date Posted: Oct 13 2021 at 5:18pm
That is cheap!

I use a vernier caliper. LOL  I think dad bought from Sears in the 70's.
Never looses calibration if treated right and no batteries to go bad etc.
All it needs is a good eye, or these days for me that means a magnifier or at least reading glasses. LOL

I'd be Ok with a cheapy like that if I had something of known thickness to compare with ever so often. 




Posted By: Rebel92
Date Posted: Oct 13 2021 at 5:24pm
unless someone (Floyd, you, or anyone else) shows me a better alternative, I will probably end up buying a somewhat nice one instead of buying a POS and having to buy another one to check it with. 


Posted By: Matt_X
Date Posted: Oct 13 2021 at 5:37pm
Oh I didn't mean another caliper, I meant something that could act as a gage block. Or if you have a friend nearby who has a gage block.   I can't think of anything common off the top of my head but maybe someone will. 

Also I may be more picky than others.


Posted By: floydthecat
Date Posted: Oct 13 2021 at 5:45pm
Certainly nothing wrong with buying a better quality tool. There is a tolerance to about anything. A couple thousandths off one way or another is not going to matter in this case. These are what I use for everything, even reloading. If all you plan to use it for is checking head space on occasion, these are fine. Now, if I were a gunsmith or machinist I’d probably toss them in the trashcan. You can read where guys have measured their head space gauges and find them off by a tad vs. the published dimensions. The craftsmanship of the gauge and tolerance of the measuring tool are at work. Then you have human error. When you get down to measuring in terms of ten thousandths or even thousands, how tight to fit the instrument can vary and any two times you measure the same thing may be different.


Posted By: W5USMC
Date Posted: Oct 13 2021 at 7:22pm
I've got a Hornady branded caliper that I think I paid close to $40 for, it is made in China, it works fine but is probably made in the same place that the Harbor Freight caliper was.

-------------
Wayne
USMC Retired
NRA Life Member


Posted By: Matt_X
Date Posted: Oct 16 2021 at 4:32pm
OK. I don't know where my brain was the other day.
If you ever changed your own spark plugs then you have some sort of half decent feeler gages.

When dealing with a caliper or micrometer of uncertain calibration.
a) clean the jaws with a piece of paper.
b) check the zero measurement.
c) check the measurement against a feeler gage.

I don't know what the tolerances are with a digital caliper but my guess is any offset will be either the same or linear.  In other works if it reads .001" closed (zero), then it will probably read .036" on a .035" feeler gage.


Posted By: Smokpole
Date Posted: Oct 17 2021 at 7:11am
I prefer dial calipers. They are easy to check the zero on and adjust when needed. Plus they are easier to read with a good sized dial.

-------------
OGCA Life member
NRA Life member
Ashtabula Rod and Gun Life member


Posted By: floydthecat
Date Posted: Oct 17 2021 at 8:18am
Originally posted by Matt_X Matt_X wrote:

I don't know what the tolerances are with a digital caliper but my guess is any offset will be either the same or linear.  In other works if it reads .001" closed (zero), then it will probably read .036" on a .035" feeler gage.

Just out of curiosity I grabbed a handful of feeler gauges to check my cheap Harbor Freight $10 digital calipers. Spot-on with the feelers. Couple of times a gauge would read off by .0005 (.0235 vs .024 feeler), but most of the time the reading matched the gauge. WAY better than government work.


Posted By: floydthecat
Date Posted: Oct 17 2021 at 11:15am
Originally posted by Rebel92 Rebel92 wrote:

https://www.harborfreight.com/hand-tools/measuring-marking-layout/calipers-micrometer/6-in-composite-digital-caliper-63586.html" rel="nofollow - 6 in. Composite Digital Caliper (harborfreight.com)  

is this the el-cheapo you had in mind? anything that price has me curious. 

Nope….mine are stainless steel and in a hard case. I don’t know if I would trust those plastic ones either? Maybe I gave a little more than $10, but it was not much more. My wife gives me $20 and takes my wallet and credit cards before she allows me to go shopping.



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