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M1 Carbine Serial Number Spread Sheets

Printed From: The Carbine Collector's Club
Category: The Club
Forum Name: Club Requests and Member Submissions
Forum Description: Submissions, Spotters Reports, Documents, Sharp Eyes Dept.
URL: http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5249
Printed Date: Nov 28 2021 at 9:27pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: M1 Carbine Serial Number Spread Sheets
Posted By: jackp1028
Subject: M1 Carbine Serial Number Spread Sheets
Date Posted: Feb 12 2021 at 10:48am
M1 Carbine Serial Number Spread Sheets




Purpose of the S/N Spread Sheets:

   1.     Establish probable “Made By” dates. (Generally, it is assumed the “Made By” date is within one month of the barrel date unless otherwise in conflict with a documented historical event.)

   2.     Provide to collectors a link to the documented information such as Carbine of the Month Data Sheets, CCNL Articles, auction listings, written descriptions, photographs, etc. for listed serial numbers that may have historic significance or have been manufactured in the same timeframe as the collector’s carbine.

   3.     Identify timeframes and S/N ranges for specific carbine features. (Example: When did Winchester use Underwood receivers?)

   4.     If a carbine is offered for sale with a serial number that is close to one that is documented, the configuration can be compared to the descriptions in the provided links, helping to confirm the carbines originality.

     
The serial numbers contained herein come from the following sources:

   1.     Larry Ruth’s “War Baby!” and “War Baby 3” documents specific events and the dates they occurred related to specific carbine serial numbers.

   2.     The Carbines of the Month (COM) featured in the 384 editions of the Carbine Club News Letters (CCNL’s) document specific information recognized as reliable about specific carbines.

   3.     Specific articles in the Carbine Club News Letters (CCNL’s) that include serial numbers, barrel dates and information of interest such as significant historical or technical information.

   4.     The Civilian Marksmanship Program. The CMP Completed Auction listings web site provides written descriptions and photographs of auctioned carbines that are believed to have come directly from the U. S. government and are free of reproduction parts. There are also selected serial numbers recovered from archived CMP Auction web pages from the past where barrel maker and barrel dates are noted.  Unfortunately, the links are not available for these archived listings.

             Here’s the link:  http://cmpauction.thecmp.org/catalog.asp?catid=363&n=M1-Carbine&view=&show=closed" rel="nofollow - Past CMP Auctions

   5.     The carbines showcased in the Carbine Collectors Club's "Featured Carbines" and "Carbines of the Collectors" forums.  Also, carbines appearing in the Bavarian Armory page of the Bavarian Carbines web site located here:

http://www.bavarianm1carbines.com/" rel="nofollow - - http://www.bavarianm1carbines.com/
 
Note" Clicking on the link in the PDF will take you directly to the original posts noted above.

   6.     The serial numbers in these spread sheets do not necessarily include all submitted Data Sheets from Club members. We continue to encourage the submission of Data Sheets to grow the source of data for future possible updates.


The Probable “Made By” Dates are estimated based on the following evidence:

   1.     Patterns that are indicated by consistent series of recorded barrel dates. Barrel dates that obviously conflict with reasonable manufacturing dates are noted “Inconsistent Barrel Date”.

   2.     Documented historical events from the War Baby! series of books showing specific dates.

   3.     In the case of Winchester, records showing the last receiver S/N stamped each day of production. This is not necessarily the date the carbine is completed.

   4.     Estimated "Made By" dates are generally supported by published monthly production quantities while taking the effect of scrap and unused serial numbers into consideration.


Below are links to the PDF searchable spread sheets for each prime contractor (After launching a file, you can key "Ctrl F" to use the search function):

           http://uscarbinecal30.com/forum/CCNLs/Mfg%20Dates%20I.B.M.%20Rev%2005.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://uscarbinecal30.com/forum/CCNLs/Mfg%20Dates%20I.B.M.pdf" rel="nofollow - International Business Machines Corp. (I.B.M.)

            http://uscarbinecal30.com/forum/CCNLs/Mfg%20Dates%20Inland.pdf" rel="nofollow - Inland Division of General Motors

           http://uscarbinecal30.com/forum/CCNLs/Mfg%20Dates%20IP,%20Sag%20GR.pdf" rel="nofollow - Irwin-Pedersen Arms Co./Saginaw Steering, Gear Grand Rapids (IP/S’G’)

            http://uscarbinecal30.com/forum/CCNLs/Mfg%20Dates%20National%20Postal%20Meter.pdf" rel="nofollow - National Postal Meter (NPM)

            http://uscarbinecal30.com/forum/CCNLs/Mfg%20Dates%20Quality%20Hardware.pdf" rel="nofollow - Quality Hardware and Machine Co. (QHMC)

            http://uscarbinecal30.com/forum/CCNLs/Mfg%20Dates%20Rock-Ola.pdf" rel="nofollow - Rock-Ola Corporation

            http://uscarbinecal30.com/forum/CCNLs/Mfg%20Dates%20Saginaw%20S.G.pdf" rel="nofollow - Saginaw Steering Gear of General Motors (S.G.)

            http://uscarbinecal30.com/forum/CCNLs/Mfg%20Dates%20Standard%20Products.pdf" rel="nofollow - Standard Products Company

            http://uscarbinecal30.com/forum/CCNLs/Mfg%20Dates%20Underwood.pdf" rel="nofollow - Underwood Elliot Fisher Co.

            http://uscarbinecal30.com/forum/CCNLs/Mfg%20Dates%20Winchester.pdf" rel="nofollow - Winchester Repeating Arms Co.

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JackP



Replies:
Posted By: W5USMC
Date Posted: Feb 12 2021 at 12:38pm
What a great resource JackP, thanks for putting this together.

-------------
Wayne
USMC Retired
NRA Life Member


Posted By: 1989LX
Date Posted: Feb 12 2021 at 1:08pm
This is fantastic! Thanks awfully for creating this!

If someone has a serial number they want to add, are you taking serials to update the lists with? Because if so, I have an S'G' to contribute.

-------------
USGI magazines are like potato chips, you can't have just one!


Posted By: jackp1028
Date Posted: Feb 12 2021 at 1:28pm
@1989XL, I welcome contributions but would prefer that they originate from a source that can later be independently referenced such as CCNL's, CMP Auction listings, Carbine Club "Featured Carbines" or "Carbines of the Collectors" or such sources as War Baby!. The key is that they should be documented in a way that readers can independently access the original source.

Perhaps you can submit your S'G' in the "Carbines of the Collectors" forum along with photos and a Data Sheet and then it could be added to a future update of the spread sheet.



-------------
JackP


Posted By: GotSnlB28
Date Posted: Feb 12 2021 at 10:08pm
@jackp thanks for putting this together! Nicely done.


Posted By: jackp1028
Date Posted: Feb 12 2021 at 10:13pm
@GotSnlB28, I didn't do it alone. I got help from New2brass, Hunterman, W5USMC and tenOCEE. Others have offered future help. Hopefully this will continue to grow.

-------------
JackP


Posted By: GotSnlB28
Date Posted: Feb 12 2021 at 10:44pm
Originally posted by jackp1028 jackp1028 wrote:

@GotSnlB28, I didn't do it alone. I got help from New2brass, Hunterman, W5USMC and tenOCEE. Others have offered future help. Hopefully this will continue to grow.


Nice group effort guys. If I can be of any assistance let me know.


Posted By: ncin1911
Date Posted: Feb 13 2021 at 7:54am
Very nice job fellows! Clap
I fleshed out a similar spreadsheet for IBM using many of the same resources that compliments my IBM binder of notes and CCNL's.


Posted By: NewScotlander
Date Posted: Feb 13 2021 at 8:42am
For Inland production, the Saginaw receivers (700,000 thru 940,000+) were not produced in sequential order with the Inland receivers. See CCNL 346, page 4, second paragraph. Same with the second serial number block Saginaw receivers.


Posted By: Charles
Date Posted: Feb 13 2021 at 9:34am
It was great seeing my S'G' s serial number in that list, it's the first time I've ever seen it in print.

Thanks guys.  


-------------
Charles
Co B 1st Batl.115 Inf. Reg.
29th. Divi.
4.2 Heavy Mortar Co Retired
Life member NRA



Posted By: jackp1028
Date Posted: Feb 13 2021 at 11:02am
@NewScotlander PM sent.

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JackP


Posted By: jackp1028
Date Posted: Feb 15 2021 at 3:08pm
@Charles, which S'G' was yours? I'll make a note.

-------------
JackP


Posted By: Nevinator
Date Posted: Feb 15 2021 at 5:36pm
this is awesome!  Thank you for your hard work.

-------------
Retired First Sergeant, U.S. Army
Retired LEO
VFW Life Member
NRA Life Member


Posted By: Charles
Date Posted: Feb 15 2021 at 5:54pm
Mine is # 3549164 It is the one with the hand carved stock from the Philippines my dad brought back.  "THE GIFT"

-------------
Charles
Co B 1st Batl.115 Inf. Reg.
29th. Divi.
4.2 Heavy Mortar Co Retired
Life member NRA



Posted By: 03collector
Date Posted: Feb 15 2021 at 5:55pm
Wow can't believe it great job on the spread sheet. I saw both  my carbines my Inland sn. 938 and my Winchester sn. 1102913. Just posted  pictures a few weeks ago keep up the good work.
With covid shutting down so many shows this is all thats left to do.
I have learned a lot in just a short time here.


Posted By: jangle
Date Posted: Feb 15 2021 at 9:38pm
I concur.  My hat is off to you guys for all your hard work!


Posted By: SSNPingjockey
Date Posted: Feb 16 2021 at 2:27pm
Jack,

Think you noted a new high WTA number.

After looking at the Underwood section of your serial number compilation, there may be a new high number for the WTA serials.

On the Club's page with the highest and lowest serial numbers known, is that s/n 2,404,928 is the highest Underwood serial for a WTA Winchester.

Your new list now has 2,405,154 that was sold at CMP Auction #1790.

Great job, by the way!  Your work on the data and posting it is really appreciated.


-------------
Chad
USN Retired


Posted By: SSNPingjockey
Date Posted: Feb 22 2021 at 11:22am
UEF 1350262 is still alive!

As a follow-up to Jack's post with the serial number spreadsheet, the Underwood section noted that UEF s/n 1350262 was a rifle used for testing.

- First five of 500 carbines production tested Dec. 11, 1942 (WB pg 111)
- Also used to test brazed trigger housing Mar. 13, 1943(WB pg 366).

As a point of documentation of the rifles used for testing, this one is still alive and kicking and, as some may have seen, was sold on GB in either March or April of 2020.  This is the only photo that I can locate that I saved from the auction.

I also recall that the only original aspect of the rifle was the receiver and rear flip sight.  The remainder, including the barrel I think, was all mix-master and neither early, nor UEF.

I spoke to Dan and he reminded me that since Inland actually made the first receivers used by UEF through 1350209, that this receiver would actually be the 53rd receiver made by Underwood. (CCNL #259)





-------------
Chad
USN Retired


Posted By: jackp1028
Date Posted: Feb 22 2021 at 11:40am
Great find!! I hope there are many more like this.

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JackP


Posted By: Charles
Date Posted: Mar 27 2021 at 10:29am
3549164

-------------
Charles
Co B 1st Batl.115 Inf. Reg.
29th. Divi.
4.2 Heavy Mortar Co Retired
Life member NRA



Posted By: jackp1028
Date Posted: Mar 28 2021 at 6:38pm
A few years ago the Carbine Collectors Club asked members for help in tracking down carbine serial numbers that fall in the gaps in known serial number ranges. Check out the "Serial Numbers to Look For and Report" article to see what we're looking to find. Perhaps as you use the Serial Number Spread Sheets you might discover a new serial number that falls in one of the gaps. Let us know so we can update the Clubs Serial Number web page.

Here's a link to the original post:

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/serial-numbers-to-look-for-and-report_topic1292.html?FID=4&PR=3" rel="nofollow - http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/serial-numbers-to-look-for-and-report_topic1292.html?FID=4&PR=3

And here's the link to the Serial Number web page:

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/serialnumbers.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/serialnumbers.html

-------------
JackP


Posted By: jackp1028
Date Posted: Apr 01 2021 at 9:30pm
The following Serial Number Spread Sheets have been updated to reflect the noted additions.

Inland Rev 13   

   Clarified Out-of-Sequence Saginaw receivers (CCNL 346 pg 4)

   Added S/N from "Carbines of the Collectors" article (03Collector's M1A1)
      
   Added S/N's from “Carbines Issued to Cannon Company” article

   Added S/N's from “Unofficial Lost Carbines” article

QHMC Rev 08    

   Added S/N’s for Cast Part Testing (WB pg 129)

   Added S/N from "Carbines of the Collectors" article (bzh362’s QHMC)
              
SG Rev 07       

   Added S/N from "Carbines of the Collectors" article (Hunterman's early SG)

   Added S/N's from “Carbines Issued to Cannon Company” article

   Added S/N's from “Unofficial Lost Carbines” article

WRA Rev 10      

   Added S/N’s for Cast Part Testing, WB pg 129

   Added S/N's from “Carbines Issued to Cannon Company” article

   Added S/N's from “Unofficial Lost Carbines” article

IP/S’G’ Rev 08

   Added S/N's from “Unofficial Lost Carbines” article

-------------
JackP


Posted By: m1a1fan
Date Posted: Apr 03 2021 at 12:29pm
jack, are you also including auction carbines? Are pictures required? How about additional data like parts, markings, etc?


Posted By: jackp1028
Date Posted: Apr 03 2021 at 1:05pm
Ted, the only auction carbines I used are CMP's completed auctions. I considered others such as Rock Island, Gun Broker, etc. but found that these carbines were often messed with. CMP carbines are likely more original, without repro parts as obtained directly through the govt.

I decided that in order to be listed, an independent source of information such as an auction listing, CCNL reference, War Baby! reference, Featured Carbine Article, etc. should be able to be independently accessed by the reader to get more information. Pictures and Data Sheets are preferred where practical but not always necessary.

Some additional data is often noted in the spreadsheet like barrel maker, receiver subcontractor marking, etc. but I expect the reader to be able to get most of that kind of data from the referenced sources like War Baby!, CCNL's, auction listings, Carbine Club Forum articles, etc. Yeah, I know that not everyone has a CCNL library or all the War Baby! books. Maybe this will encourage them to make that investment.

-------------
JackP


Posted By: jackp1028
Date Posted: Apr 16 2021 at 11:15am
All the Serial Number Spread Sheets have been updated to include notes regarding missing or skipped serial number ranges as described in the article, "Serial Numbers to Look for and Report".

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/serial-numbers-to-look-for-and-report_topic1292.html?FID=53&PR=" rel="nofollow - http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/serial-numbers-to-look-for-and-report_topic1292.html?FID=53&PR=

In addition, minor changes have been made to the Saginaw SG "Made By" dates to reflect unused serial numbers and estimated scrapped receivers per CCNL 357.

Finally, the IP/S'G' spread sheet has been revised to add Grand Rapid Serial Numbers used for Saginaw testing per WB pg 164.


-------------
JackP


Posted By: jackp1028
Date Posted: May 23 2021 at 10:28am
The following Serial Number Spread Sheets have been updated to reflect the noted additions and corrections.

Rock-Ola Rev 08     

Adjusted “Made By” dates to reflect that Rock-Ola appeared to have skipped serial numbers in first block and also that Rock-Ola appeared to reused scrapped serial numbers. Ref CCNL 357-18 and “Serial Numbers to Look for and Report” article in the Club forum.

Winchester Rev 12     

Corrected inadvertently omitted description for serial number 5589709

S’G’/IP Rev 11     

Corrected out-of-order serial numbers.

Underwood Rev 10     

Added “Private Collector” Serial numbers w/links.

Moved Inland Lineouts in first section to Inland Spread Sheet.

Inland Rev 15     

Added Inland to Underwood Line-outs noted in CCNL’s previously listed on UEF Spread Sheet.

Deleted serial number 10. This was a Winchester carbine, not Inland.

Corrected missing “Made By” date for S/N 63102XX.


-------------
JackP


Posted By: Oldboy53
Date Posted: Jun 03 2021 at 7:13pm
Hey, Jackp, just ran across this thread, great info in your spreadsheet! Thanks so much for your time and effort to produce this document. I've got a SP carbine, s/n 19928xx, that I've sent in a datasheet on. The s/n puts it less than a thousand after two of the 3rd test carbines that 'barely' passed muster! Don't know if that's good or not. Thanks again for your efforts!


Posted By: jackp1028
Date Posted: Jul 10 2021 at 7:55pm
The Serial Number Spread Sheets continue to grow. Please note the following changes and additions:

1. Added 22 select serial numbers recovered from archived CMP Auction web pages from the 2011-2013 timeframe.

2. Added 88 carbines appearing in the Bavarian Armory page of the Bavarian Carbines web site.

3. Corrected various missing dates and spelling errors.


                    





-------------
JackP


Posted By: jackp1028
Date Posted: Oct 21 2021 at 5:30pm
The Serial Number Spread Sheets have been updated to include the following additions and changes.

Inland Rev 18
          
Added S/N 2730 with link to CCC article.

Added note for S/N 122.
     
Added S/N 270 with link to CCC article

Added “Duplicate Serial Number” notes

Made various minor format changes.
     
Winchester Rev 15          

Added “Duplicate Serial Number” notes

Made various minor format changes.


-------------
JackP


Posted By: HammerGrunt
Date Posted: Oct 21 2021 at 9:50pm
You can add the information on Inland 3446 that I posted in the Carbines of Collectors section.


Posted By: jackp1028
Date Posted: Oct 23 2021 at 11:38am
Hammer, I'll be adding it in the next update along with the early Winchester you got from Marcus. Any chance you could add Data Sheets to your original posts? It will help others to get a more complete picture of these original carbine's configurations.

-------------
JackP


Posted By: jackp1028
Date Posted: Oct 23 2021 at 5:46pm
By the way, your Rock-Ola 1692988 "Carried on Iwo Jima" already appears in the Spread Sheet. I'll add a link so others can easily find the additional pictures you posted.   

-------------
JackP


Posted By: Da1Chief
Date Posted: Nov 07 2021 at 7:45am
Hello,
Just wanted you to know that I am the proud owner of IBM AO M1 Carbine S/N = 3876727.
It is alive and well in Suffolk, VA.
According to "The Spreadsheet" that should put its MFG date somewhere around MID Feb 1944.
Purchased at Local Gun Show (Virginia Beach, VA) from Vendor out of Florida.
It is a Birch Wood SCB with matching SCB Birch Hand Guard.
Most components seem to be correctly marked from that time period.
Will be happy to answer all questions.

Hope this helps fill in some of the questions
V/r
Da1Chief



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