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Ruth: SG Stock marked OI/40A, Found OI/39A

Printed From: The Carbine Collector's Club
Category: The Club
Forum Name: Parts Markings
Forum Description: Questions and Answers
URL: http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5164
Printed Date: Oct 06 2022 at 12:57pm
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Topic: Ruth: SG Stock marked OI/40A, Found OI/39A
Posted By: painter777
Subject: Ruth: SG Stock marked OI/40A, Found OI/39A
Date Posted: Jan 12 2021 at 7:10pm
In War Baby, In the summing up Saginaw's Carbine Program,
In the stock section page 435, Larry mentions:

Type A, Variation 1 with the I cut Oiler Slot (Type I) was found with RMC 40 A

Type A (M1), Variation 2 with Oval Oiler Slot (Type II) was found with sling well marking of OI 40 A.

Type A (M1), Variation 2 with Oval Oiler Slot (Type II) was found with sling well marking with upside down U and a 7.

Type A (M1), Variation 2 with Oval Oiler Slot (Type II) was found with sling well marking with RSG and 9 A.

Type A (M1), Variation 2 with Oval Oiler Slot (Type II) was found with sling well marking with 75 E RSG

Type A (M1), Variation 2 with Oval Oiler Slot (Type II) was found with sling well marking with RSG 88 F

Type A (M1), Variation 4 with Oval Oiler Slot with modified slide clearance cut and was found with sling well marking with RSG 105 B. This one noted use during late production.

There is no mention of Serial numbers ranges to the letter/number codes I could find.
Which leads me to think he was just using observations from examples he looked at.
Am I wrong ?
Where was Larry heading with this information? Did he believe the letter/number codes used by Saginaw SG had some rhyme and reason to them, maybe a increasing number and letter as production moved forward ?
IF Based on increasing number/letter codes... Could these have been based on Deliveries as accepted  by SG?
I've often thought the added markings could have been applied by a In House Stock Inspector at Saginaw, before assembly commenced in that stock. Assume they would have inspected deliveries and possibly used different gages and jigs to inspect them with. Maybe numbers/letters were related to order numbers/invoices. Letters to a inspection section and or shift.
I think back to the picture of a Robert Irwin worker checking the actions fit in a new made stock.
And would think SG would double check before wasting any labor on a stock to be found later to be out of spec.




There is also no mention of the Type II TRIMBLE TN stocks that were used by Saginaw SG.
2 examples pictured below.

I'm asking because I happened across a older post on Milsurps today from a member in Europe that showed his SG 3.37M that appears as Original.
His Sling Well is marked 1 digit below the 2nd example listed above of OI 40 A.

Here is SG 3,37 mil with OI 39 A in the Sling Well:













Has there been any Updates I'm not aware of with the Letter/Number markings found in Saginaw used stocks ?

Thx,
Charlie-Painter777


-------------
Living Free because of those that serve.....



Replies:
Posted By: Matt_X
Date Posted: Jan 24 2021 at 9:06pm
Type A (M1), Variation 4 with Oval Oiler Slot with modified slide clearance cut and was found with sling well marking with RSG 105 B. This one noted use during late production.

5,86X,XXX 
that was for sale here https://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=274184" rel="nofollow - https://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=274184
Was featured in CCNL 356 and has the following noted on its datasheet  https://imgur.com/Povbck8" rel="nofollow - https://imgur.com/Povbck8
RSG
G
105

So there's another serial number to associate with those markings.



Posted By: welbytwo
Date Posted: Jan 24 2021 at 10:49pm
to my knowledge no one has come up with anything other then just early were low numbers and higher numbers were higher serial codes-I have a file full of different numbers and letters at end--my lowest is 8A


Posted By: welbytwo
Date Posted: Jan 24 2021 at 11:04pm
102A is highest--on a 586xxxx


Posted By: Matt_X
Date Posted: Jan 26 2021 at 10:51pm
Are those Trimble stocks associated with SG receiver numbers?


Posted By: painter777
Date Posted: Jan 27 2021 at 4:19pm
 

Post your findings here: SG Carbine stock Sling Well markings

1-S.G. Letter and Number Sling Well observations.
2-Stock Type (I, II, III)
3-Stock Maker's Letter Markings
4-Serial# if known

***Its OK to post observations of loose S.G. Stocks***


Any single digit in the Sling Well should be scrutinized for a weak stamp.


Number/letter. Stock Type. Stock maker. Serial # if available


6B High Type II RSG Serial# 3,256,01x
U7 High-TII (?) No Serial#
8A Type ? RSG Serial# 3,262,680
9A High-TII RSG No Serial#
34F High RSG 3,35 CCNL 341
39A High OI 3,37 NON COM
40A High- TI RMC No Serial#
40A High-TII OI No Serial#
41B High-TII TRIMBLE/TN+SG Ser# Unknown
SG and Bomb- High-Type II TRIMBLE TN Serial Unknown AA rebuild
43F High-TI RMC Ser# 3,348,822
45D High OI 3,38 CCNL 319
47E High-TII RSG No Serial# Stock Only
48D High (?) TRIMBLE TN/TSG 3,384 NON COM
49E High RSG 3,39 CCNL 319
51A High-TII (cut to TIII) RSG Serial# 3,328,8XX (?)
51E High-TII RSG No Serial# Stock Only
53E Possible High Type II (?) cut to Low- Type III RSG Serial# 5,858,07x
62C High RSG 3,42 CCNL 308
75E High-TII RSG No Serial#
82E High- Type II RSG  Stock Only
88F High-TII RSG No Serial#
102A Low- TIII RSG Serial# 5,861,526
105B Low RSG Only noted late production
105F Low RSG 5,56 CCNL 281
G105 Possible High- Type II cut to Low RSG  Serial# 5,866,260 COM CCNL 356

(?) Serial # when received. Not known if original to stock

**Mental NOTE: Need to check 2 COM's: CCNL 120 for SG 5,864,xxx
and NL 281 for SG 5,864,2xx **


****We need others to report on their SG Carbines. Or observations on loose S.G. stocks****

Include Sling Well markings-Numbers/letters along with stock makers markings.
Stock type: Hi-wood I cut- Type 1, Oval High wood- Type II, or Oval Low wood- Type III.
Serial number range.


All reports greatly Appreciated,

Charlie-Painter777


-------------
Living Free because of those that serve.....


Posted By: painter777
Date Posted: Feb 03 2021 at 1:44pm

Post your findings here: SG Carbine stock Sling Well markings

1-S.G. Letter and Number Sling Well observations.
2-Stock Type (I, II, III)
3-Stock Maker's Letter Markings
4-Serial# if known

***Its OK to post observations of loose S.G. Stocks***

Requesting any one with or viewing a S.G. to reply

Thanks All,

Charlie-Painter777

Marking Type Mfg SERIAL
6 B T2 High Oval RSG 3.25
7 T2 High Oval U
7 U T2 High Oval

8 A
rsg 3.26
8A


9 A T2 High Oval RSG
34 F T2 High Oval RSG 3.35
36 B T2 High Oval RSG 3.44
39 A
OI 3.37
40 A T1 I cut RMC
40 A T2 High Oval OI
41 B
TRIMBLE/SG
43 F T1 I cut RMC 3.34
45 D T2 High Oval OI 3.38
47 D T2 High Oval RSG
48 D
TRIMBLE/TSG 3.38
49 E T2 High Oval RSG 3.39
51 A T2 High Oval RSG 3.32
51 E T2 High Oval RSG
53 E T2 High Oval pos RSG 5.85
56 T2 High Oval RSG 3.4
S7 B T2 High Oval
3.4
62 C T2 High Oval RSG 3.42
67 C T2 High Oval RSG 3.47
75 E T2 High Oval RSG
76 F T2 High Oval RSG 3.5
78 A T3 ?
82 E T2 High Oval RSG
88 F T2 High Oval RSG
102 A T3 RSG 5.86
105 B T4 (modified)  RSG
105 F T1 I cut T3 RSG 5.56
G 105 T3 RSG 5.86



-------------
Living Free because of those that serve.....


Posted By: Matt_X
Date Posted: Feb 03 2021 at 4:41pm
FWIW the 105 that was in CCNL 356 is a Type III or a Type II cut down.
https://i.imgur.com/Povbck8.jpg




Posted By: jim77cg
Date Posted: Feb 05 2021 at 2:30pm
Here is one more stock to add to the listing.  It started life as a Type II, but the high wood was removed at some point.  Has a faint, but recognizable SG cartouche on the right handside.  When I purchased it, it held SG receiver #33288XX.




Posted By: painter777
Date Posted: Feb 05 2021 at 6:15pm
Thx Jim77,
Appears to be 51 A.
With the 1 being Double struck or rebounded.

Charlie-P777


-------------
Living Free because of those that serve.....


Posted By: W5USMC
Date Posted: Feb 05 2021 at 7:43pm
I think that may be a 7 not a 1, 7 with a line through it, like the old days?

-------------
Wayne
USMC Retired
NRA Life Member


Posted By: painter777
Date Posted: Feb 05 2021 at 10:09pm
Originally posted by W5USMC W5USMC wrote:

I think that may be a 7 not a 1, 7 with a line through it, like the old days?

I Zoomed and even had the Wife and her friend look at it for other opinions.
First they thought a 7 with the line thru it. But when looking closer it looks like a 1 with the top squiggly that has been double struck or rebounded.

Though not a very good picture above I have a picture of one of mine that has the TRIMBLE over TN,
with 41 and a B stamped over SG. If you look closely the 1 in my 41 has the same top detail as Jim77's 
51 A. Top of the 1 have a sorta ~ to them.

I also noticed Jim77's picture file was titled 51A, so I believe he thinks so also.

But It can be changed if I see a 7 has the same detail.

Thx
Charlie-P777

ETA: I just pulled out 47E and the 7 has like a Serif top to it, looks nothing like the 1 pictured above.  


-------------
Living Free because of those that serve.....


Posted By: W5USMC
Date Posted: Feb 05 2021 at 11:24pm
Yes Charlie, I just zoomed in on it, agree a double stamped 1 not a 7.

-------------
Wayne
USMC Retired
NRA Life Member


Posted By: jim77cg
Date Posted: Feb 06 2021 at 11:56am
Didn't mean to cause so much controversy.  I have always thought it was 51 A, with the 1 being a double strike. I should have stated that. If true confirms they used individual number dies to apply these markings. Hopefully this new picture in brighter sun resolves the issue. Appears first strike was slightly off to the left.

 


Posted By: painter777
Date Posted: Feb 13 2021 at 2:33pm
Can anyone with quick access to CCNL's 120 and 281 help me out?
Need to check 2 COM's: CCNL 120 for SG 5,864,xxx
and NL 281 for SG 5,864,2xx 

 Need:

1-S.G. Letter and Number Sling Well observations.
2-Stock Type (I, II, III)
3-Stock Maker's Letter Markings
4-Serial# if known

PM me or reply here.

Thx,
Ch-P777

 


-------------
Living Free because of those that serve.....


Posted By: Durango56
Date Posted: Feb 14 2021 at 12:03pm
com 120 is a type III stock with 1/4" tall RSG and a larger oval O below it.
Com 281 is a type III stock , RSG  105F in sling well,.
COM 120 did not have SG in box on right side of stock just cross cannon


Posted By: hunterman
Date Posted: Feb 14 2021 at 3:24pm
Originally posted by Durango56 Durango56 wrote:

Com 281 is a type III stock , RSG  105F in sling well,.



COM 281 stock is I-cut, low wood.  The article suggests it may be a "floor sweep" carbine, made from whatever parts are available at the end of production.




Posted By: Matt_X
Date Posted: Apr 23 2021 at 6:11pm
This SG stock and receiver looks like they are the original mates? Unfortunately can't see the first part of the serial number.  :(   Possibly a wide tange receiver.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/rifles/military-rifles-m1-carbine/fantastic-m1-carbine-original-un-touched-saginaw-sg-high-wood-flip-sight.cfm?gun_id=101639983" rel="nofollow - https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/rifles/military-rifles-m1-carbine/fantastic-m1-carbine-original-un-touched-saginaw-sg-high-wood-flip-sight.cfm?gun_id=101639983

____167

Highwood

Slingwell
RSG [large letters in middle]
S 7 B


Posted By: Matt_X
Date Posted: May 27 2021 at 8:44pm
SN: 3,519,667
Highwood with oval cut.  (aka Type II)

TRIMBLE
   TN

B551

Ref: CMP post http://forums.thecmp.org/showpost.php?p=2048737&postcount=11" rel="nofollow - http://forums.thecmp.org/showpost.php?p=2048737&postcount=11
Hotlinked image from imgur


Posted By: Why Carbines?
Date Posted: May 27 2021 at 9:10pm
I suspect that's a Bavarian number, unless I am missing something.


Posted By: Matt_X
Date Posted: May 27 2021 at 9:19pm
Originally posted by Why Carbines? Why Carbines? wrote:

I suspect that's a Bavarian number, unless I am missing something.
Interesting you say that.
There is another stamp parallel to the buttplate that may be something like a rack number.



Here's the direct link to all he posted https://imgur.com/a/v0BEKFE
I'm hoping he'll respond and maybe we can get some closer views of the other side for signs of the ordnance stamps.


Posted By: painter777
Date Posted: May 28 2021 at 1:25pm
I think it is 3551

The Bundesheer carbines often had a Rack number below the Oiler slot

Ch-P777


-------------
Living Free because of those that serve.....


Posted By: Matt_X
Date Posted: May 28 2021 at 4:13pm
Could be.
If you guys wouldn't mind taking a look at the thread at CMP there's another SG pictured there as well.  Both are in the same thread, two different carbines and owners.   
I've asked the owner of this one to look for other stamps and marks.   If you not on the CMP forum, I'm fine with passing along info and questions. 

The other SG in the thread has stamps that raised questions in my head.  Some of which has to do with the surface finish.  Please take a look and see what you think. 

http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=282257" rel="nofollow - http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=282257

Thanks!
- Matt


Posted By: New2brass
Date Posted: May 28 2021 at 4:48pm
Originally posted by Matt_X Matt_X wrote:

The other SG in the thread has stamps that raised questions in my head.  Some of which has to do with the surface finish.  Please take a look and see what you think. 
- Matt

Surface finish of the sanding job?

The markings are not consistent with any SG stock markings I have seen.








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http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/club-assistance-saginaw-receivers_topic4716.html" rel="nofollow - Club Survey Saginaw Receivers


Posted By: Why Carbines?
Date Posted: May 28 2021 at 6:21pm
Yeah, I was going to mention on the CMP site that those stamps are wishful thinking.


Posted By: Matt_X
Date Posted: May 28 2021 at 7:01pm
Yes. That's what I was afraid of.  It looked like coarse somewhat cross-grain sanding in that area and then the very sharp boxed SG was applied afterward.  Also the RSG didn't look like the RSG I've seen but it seemed best not to rush to judgement.

On the other hand the Trimble looks legit.  It will be interesting to see if it has any evidence of being an SG or an NPM.  I'm thinking it might be a replacement?


Posted By: New2brass
Date Posted: May 29 2021 at 8:09am
as pointed out that Trimble stock markings in the slingwell are consistent with some of the Bavarian/Austrian returns where they marked the last 4  numbers of the serial number on various parts. Suffice to say, that stock was not on that SG  when the numbers were stamped and there is nothing that ties it to Saginaw.




http://www.bavarianm1carbines.com/carbineAGT_0439.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.bavarianm1carbines.com/carbineAGT_0439.html

The numbers by the buttstock may be from another carbine it was on or a rack number?
Typically the rack number is on the bottom of the trigger housing.



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http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/club-assistance-saginaw-receivers_topic4716.html" rel="nofollow - Club Survey Saginaw Receivers


Posted By: Matt_X
Date Posted: Jun 06 2021 at 8:57pm
OK. Maybe we'll do better on the ones in this thread.
http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=282591forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=282591" rel="nofollow - http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=282591

Start with the second one, a 3,400,xxx carbine.
Front sight stake is not what I would expect, but the stock looks to me like its a real SG.

Slingwell has RSG in the middle
56 below


The other is a 5.85. 
We'ld have to ask for a slingwell photo. 



Posted By: Matt_X
Date Posted: Jul 21 2021 at 8:07am
How 'bout this one?  Looks OK to me.  Only question I had was the
cartouche is a little further forward than I've seen in other examples.

3501980 
Highwood stock
RSG in large letters - middle.
7 6 F  large in middle (overstamping RSG)

RIA stamp on the stock so may not be original to the carbine.
https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/rifles/military-rifles-m1-carbine/saginaw-gear-sg-m1-carbine-non-import-all-correct-w-flip-sight-hw-sg-stock-t1-band.cfm?gun_id=101676768#lg-2" rel="nofollow - https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/rifles/military-rifles-m1-carbine/saginaw-gear-sg-m1-carbine-non-import-all-correct-w-flip-sight-hw-sg-stock-t1-band.cfm?gun_id=101676768#lg-2




Posted By: RWS-67
Date Posted: Aug 04 2021 at 9:14am
As per your request, I have a S.G. type II stock W/ RSG 67 C in slingwell. Serial # 34707XX for your consideration.  Rich


Posted By: RWS-67
Date Posted: Aug 07 2021 at 4:36pm
I may be a little late for your quest for SG slingwell letters & #'s, but here goes:                                        High wood TII                                                                                                                                    RSG                                                                                                                                                  67 C                                                                                                                                                  Ser. # 34707XX


Posted By: Matt_X
Date Posted: Aug 07 2021 at 9:27pm
I don't think its too late.  I assume Painter777 has just been busy.
The more examples that can be documented the better chance we can figure out what the markings represent and if they are chonological - which to some degree they appear to be. 




Posted By: New2brass
Date Posted: Aug 11 2021 at 10:52am
36 B T2  RSG 3.44
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/906518851" rel="nofollow -
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/906518851" rel="nofollow - https://www.gunbroker.com/item/906518851




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http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/club-assistance-saginaw-receivers_topic4716.html" rel="nofollow - Club Survey Saginaw Receivers


Posted By: Matt_X
Date Posted: Aug 12 2021 at 12:04pm
Originally posted by New2brass New2brass wrote:

36 B T2  RSG 3.44
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/906518851" rel="nofollow -
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/906518851" rel="nofollow - https://www.gunbroker.com/item/906518851



Thanks Dan. Nice Highwood.  Nice looking carbine - apparently some bidders thought so too!
Interesting that the only dings of note are in the slingwell.




 


Posted By: Mortar-Forker
Date Posted: Aug 12 2021 at 2:29pm
They look like batch numbers from the furniture suppliers. Not stocks, but furniture, like chairs and couches. Here is an example from a Robert W Irwin Co. using this exact labelling technique.

https://grpmcollections.org/Detail/objects/91570" rel="nofollow - https://grpmcollections.org/Detail/objects/91570



Posted By: Matt_X
Date Posted: Aug 12 2021 at 3:23pm
Thats interesting. 

Seems like there are several interelated puzzles with these slingwell stamping.
What do the numbers and letters represent?  (Are they sequential? some sort of date code? batch? employee mark? etc)
Who stamped them? 
Where in the process were they stamped.

My understanding is that all stock manufacturer identifiers were stamped by the stock maker.
Its curious that the RSG stamps vary in size and location within the sling well.  Hopefully this survey will also turn up a possible pattern to this.

It seems at least in this example, the letter-number stamp was applied later.

Additionally none of the RSG stocks on Grand Rapids built carbines have the letter-number stamps.  So I think that's why it is believed these stamps were added at Saginaw.

Whatever the reason for the code, it apparently wasn't needed at Saginaw's Grand Rapids operation.  Could it be something about how Saginaw plant's layout?   Or just a different solution to part of the manufacturing  - akin to how each contractor came up with their own sighting range and adjustment procedures?


Posted By: Mortar-Forker
Date Posted: Aug 12 2021 at 4:21pm
Did Saginaw get a run of bad stocks maybe? Possibly discovered post-production making all the brass cranky?

They were supposed to have "Integration Committees" standardizing everything between the different primaries meeting every four to six weeks.

Army Ordnance and Procurement WWII 1991 pages 175-176 (197-198 in pdf)

https://history.army.mil/html/books/010/10-10/cmh_pub_10-10.pdf" rel="nofollow - https://history.army.mil/html/books/010/10-10/cmh_pub_10-10.pdf


Posted By: Mortar-Forker
Date Posted: Aug 14 2021 at 9:55am
The date codes used by the Saginaw plant prior to the war use a letter for the month, followed by a one or two digit number for the day, followed by a single digit number for the year, then sometimes followed by a line or shift digit that may be either a letter or number.

Date H-19- 9 5,
August 19th, 1929.

This example is used on page two of this pdf:
https://hotrod.gregwapling.com/chevrolet/1929-30.pdf

Another example of a Saginaw transmission:
J77 - Oct 7 , 1937
Found here: https://vccachat.org/ubbthreads.php/topics/122494/1938-transmission-date-codes.html

Also listed are date codes and subsequent serial numbers:
1) Date Code: A78 Ser# pad is blank (top shift)
2) Date Code: J77 Stamped Ser# SE5ii42 7 (top shifter)
3) Date Code: A31 Stamped Ser# C18735 (top shifter)
4) Date Code: A12 Stamped Ser# N1958X (Pontiac column shift)
5) Date Code: 319 Ser# Plate blank (Remains of Vacuum shift)

Date code H107 still in use in 1968:

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/saginaw-4-speed-with-a-x.760340/


Posted By: New2brass
Date Posted: Aug 14 2021 at 11:51am
Guys, The second post has a list that was updated. Remember that the serial numbers are what is observed and it is possible that the carbine has been restored.

@ Matt, Is that stock 6F or 76 F? is there a serial? Yes, the numbers and letter appear to be stamped after the RSG

Some stock manufactures used a Julian calendar date that was inked in the slide channel. Most of these markings are long gone.
http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/stock-markings-possible-julian-date-or-otherwise_topic2741.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/stock-markings-possible-julian-date-or-otherwise_topic2741.html

Sprague & Carleton used numbers under the buttplate presumed to be Julian dates
http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/markings-under-the-buttplate_topic3007.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/markings-under-the-buttplate_topic3007.html

(note) the toolbar at top has 3 google search bars to search all three of out websites. chose the one on left and search Julian for more posts.

When it comes to the Saginaw plant it was speculated that the numbers and letter were inspectors marks.
It seems that this may not be the case. The letters A-G have been observed with one outlier of a upside down U. Leave out the U and there are only 7 letter, clearly not enough to represent months.
The numbers go from 6 to 105, again too many for months, but possibly weeks?
throw in the fact that Saginaw (both factories) only delivered for 12 months total, now throw in the letters.
I do not think these are stock Julian dates.

If we take 105 (highest number) and times by 6 (A-G) we get 630.
Looking at one of my favorite newsletters, 357, we see that Saginaw @ Saginaw was assigned 638070 serial numbers. Leaving out scrap rate and and unused serial numbers, and making simple math we are talking possibly 1000 serial numbers to  a "lot" for delivers.

^^^***THIS IS JUST SPECULATION!***^^^
__________________________________________________________________
@ Mortar, highly unlikely that there was a bad run and every carbine was recalled fro stock replacement. We have found ordnance document fro much smaller problems.
The Integration Committee was held at Underwood's corporate headquarters in NYC
http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/where-are-they-today_topic1381.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/where-are-they-today_topic1381.html

Saginaw was part of General Motors. As a matter of fact the contracts were listed under General Motors and broken down by divisions. There were many of them!
Buick, Oldsmobile, Cadillac, Pontiac, AC-Delco, Brown Lipe Chapman, Guide lamp div, Frigidaire, and the list goes on and on!
Most if not all GM divisions were involved with wartime production including those in Canada and overseas.

Saginaw Steering Gear division made steering gears and I am sure other automotive items. There was also a Saginaw Malleable Iron division of GM. the common thread was they were both in Saginaw Michigan. One was not a division of the other, they were both divisions of GM.
Saginaw Malleable Iron (formerly Saginaw Grey Iron) was a casting foundry that produced things such as transmission cases.
They did have a part in many wartime items for GM and they made the butt-plate for the M1a1 and supposedly trigger housing forgings for Saginaw and Inland.

That PDF is of interest as it mentions Ferro, another item that we are looking for in relation to post war flash hiders and recoil checks marked F in an oval as well as postwar M1a1 buttplates marked F

Should anyone want to try and research it.

http://www.google.com/search?q=ferro&safe=vss&sitesearch=www.uscarbinecal30.com" rel="nofollow - https://www.google.com/search?q=ferro&safe=vss&sitesearch=www.uscarbinecal30.com










-------------
http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/club-assistance-saginaw-receivers_topic4716.html" rel="nofollow - Club Survey Saginaw Receivers


Posted By: Matt_X
Date Posted: Aug 14 2021 at 1:28pm
@ Mortar.
I like the comparison with Saginaw's casting date codes
Isn't purpose of casting dates at least in part to track issues if they occur, as well as wear to the molds?  

Our sample group is still very small.  It will be interesting to see whether we start to find duplicates or a wider variety of combinations.

@Dan
The slingwell photo is from the Guns International link.  I'll repost it below.
I think its a 7 6 F with each character individually stamped.  Fonts dont even seem to match
Stock was through a US rebuild s ono guarentee it was always mated to the receiver.
Originally posted by Matt_X Matt_X wrote:


3501980 
Highwood stock
RSG in large letters - middle.
7 6 F  large in middle (overstamping RSG)

RIA stamp on the stock so may not be original to the carbine.
https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/rifles/military-rifles-m1-carbine/saginaw-gear-sg-m1-carbine-non-import-all-correct-w-flip-sight-hw-sg-stock-t1-band.cfm?gun_id=101676768#lg-2" rel="nofollow - https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/rifles/military-rifles-m1-carbine/saginaw-gear-sg-m1-carbine-non-import-all-correct-w-flip-sight-hw-sg-stock-t1-band.cfm?gun_id=101676768#lg-2



Posted By: Mortar-Forker
Date Posted: Aug 14 2021 at 11:15pm
I don't think they are GM date codes, but it was mentioned and GM methodology is good to consider.

I think batch codes are more likely as they seem somewhat sequential and batch codes would be helpful in tracking parts from multiple suppliers, especially if you want to track a small number of parts in a large run of rifles.

Maybe the plant was stamping them on the way in the door. I don't know and am speculating. It is an interesting question.


Posted By: RWS-67
Date Posted: Aug 19 2021 at 7:57am
Found a loose S.G. stock....102 B  T3  RSG  Clap


Posted By: Matt_X
Date Posted: Aug 19 2021 at 8:22am
Originally posted by RWS-67 RWS-67 wrote:

Found a loose S.G. stock....102 B  T3  RSG  Clap

Thanks.  Can you provide some more details of the letter sizes and locations?

Something like this
RSG  
G
105

-----------------
There's a low wood/cut down SG on ebay right now, but can't read the slingwell.
It has a vertical mortice in the barrel band location.  Looks hacked.  Probably fixable.


Posted By: RWS-67
Date Posted: Aug 20 2021 at 3:02pm
The RSG is normal size above a larger 102 below.  The B is approx. the same size as the RSG letters... Hope this helps... Rich


Posted By: W5USMC
Date Posted: Aug 28 2021 at 10:42pm
A beat up RSG stock on ebay.



-------------
Wayne
USMC Retired
NRA Life Member


Posted By: Matt_X
Date Posted: Aug 29 2021 at 8:31pm
Thanks.  Oval, Low wood, maybe cut down high wood? 
Stamped on left side 3668745 [seller believes was carbine serial number stamped by IDF]
RSG large upper right 
84 D in middle




Posted By: wick57
Date Posted: Dec 03 2021 at 4:29pm
Late to the party here.  I have a SG stock ser # 3357xxx.  

https://imgur.com/3Hw9Jsr" rel="nofollow - https://imgur.com/3Hw9Jsr

I see IO and 4  6  A.  If you look closely, to me, I also almost see an R in a different font struck lightly before the IO.
Thoughts??
Wick



-------------
Wick


Posted By: Matt_X
Date Posted: Dec 08 2021 at 9:16am
Originally posted by wick57 wick57 wrote:

Late to the party here.  I have a SG stock ser # 3357xxx.  

https://imgur.com/3Hw9Jsr" rel="nofollow - https://imgur.com/3Hw9Jsr

I see IO and 4  6  A.  If you look closely, to me, I also almost see an R in a different font struck lightly before the IO.
Thoughts??
Wick



I can see what appears to be an R.  Not sure at all. 
If the stock was made by Robert Irwin, we'd expect the IO to be overstamped on an SG.
If it the stock was made by Overton for Inland, then transfered to Saginaw, why the R?

Comparing with the Overton for Inland stamp on the http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/stocks.html" rel="nofollow - Stocks webpage, the O looks wider.


Posted By: wick57
Date Posted: Dec 08 2021 at 10:35am
Interesting observation, Matt.  I went back just now and checked height and width of the "O" against another INLAND stock cartouche with calipers.  Both H and W were identical.  Difference in the photos might be a slight angle shift in camera perspective.
Wick


-------------
Wick


Posted By: Why Carbines?
Date Posted: Dec 08 2021 at 10:42am
It's pretty easy to determine the difference between Irwin made and Overton made stocks, just look a the nose profile or look for any markings in the barrel channel and slide well since they both used different ink stamps formats there (the slide well).


Posted By: Matt_X
Date Posted: Dec 16 2021 at 2:03pm
Wick57, Can you post a few more photos of the stock?  Esp the nose?


Posted By: wick57
Date Posted: Dec 16 2021 at 7:41pm
Hi. Yes I will but it will be several days. I am out of town through the holidays. 
Wick


-------------
Wick


Posted By: PingCMP
Date Posted: Dec 27 2021 at 12:44am
This is an M1 oval cut, highwood on S.G. 33414xx which I found in original configuration. I won't to attempt to divine what the marks are



Posted By: wick57
Date Posted: Dec 27 2021 at 3:58pm
Matt_X -
Here are the additional photos of the nose of the stock you requested.
https://imgur.com/r1ccyO5" rel="nofollow - https://imgur.com/r1ccyO5
https://imgur.com/onKI7IJ" rel="nofollow - https://imgur.com/onKI7IJ
https://imgur.com/vPe5zJo" rel="nofollow - https://imgur.com/vPe5zJo
Any thoughts welcome.
Wick


-------------
Wick


Posted By: ncin1911
Date Posted: May 13 2022 at 6:21am
IBM GB listing in RSG stock:  https://www.gunbroker.com/item/933091320" rel="nofollow - https://gunbroker.com/item/933091320








Posted By: Matt_X
Date Posted: Jun 18 2022 at 4:45pm
Some other sideways X overstamps have shown up on CMP and milsurps recently.
Do we think that is a 101 A?  with an X over the first 1?
From the photos on gun broker I'm going to go with Low wood (Type III)  unless someone thinks its a cut down. 
RSG located high.
Original serial number unknown.



Posted By: Matt_X
Date Posted: Jun 18 2022 at 5:24pm
Charlie sent me some others he's dug up but has been to busy to post.  The Quality Hardware acceptance stamp on the last one adds another twist!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Either this is the same stock and carbine already on the list, or we have a second example. 
SG 3262XXX  TYPE II
RSG  [high in slingwell]
A  [sideways]  BOMB [sideways] 8 [at 45]


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SG 5861XXX,
TYPE III stock
RSG [middle]
102   [1 has an oval  O overstamp]  


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 [From EBAY STOCK only listing]
TYPE II Stock
RSG
[Bomb sideways]
7 [upside down] C [sideways]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unknown Carbine
UNKNOWN STOCK TYPE
 TRIMBLE [Top]
TN
48-D  [Upside down]
TSG 


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
QHMC unknown serial number.
[unknown stock type, possible late Type III]
O  [oval  or sideways] RSG [middle]



+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LATE QHMC 4,7-4,8
Stock Type ? with QHMC CC
O [middle]
RSG  [bottom]




Posted By: Matt_X
Date Posted: Jun 18 2022 at 5:36pm
Loose Stock discussed on CMP forum http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=299068" rel="nofollow - http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=299068
Type II
[R] SG [barely visible, slingwell was refinished]
1 4 F




Posted By: Matt_X
Date Posted: Jun 18 2022 at 5:48pm
Originally posted by Matt_X Matt_X wrote:

Some other sideways X overstamps have shown up on CMP

Found it. http://forums.thecmp.org/showpost.php?p=2074842&postcount=437" rel="nofollow - http://forums.thecmp.org/showpost.php?p=2074842&postcount=437

Stock stamped with -U- post-war Underwood  rebuild ( Inland carbine)
Original carbine unknown
Type III or type II cut down.
RSG [high, partially sanded]
x [sideways] 9 4 B [low]





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