serial number stamped on the left upper butt stock.

I figured it was an "inspector/rebuilder/workman" type number; I have seen two digit numbers other than the "50" also.

I do not believe it to be a rack marking of an inspection marking.

I think (capitol THINK) I have seen a 100 in that location.

I have seen the 50 on the left and on the right.

I have never been to Israel but it seems to have rural and urban areas.

The M1 carbine made an excellent urban weapon as a stray bullet most likely would not penetrate a wall and create collateral damage.

though the number is in proximity to the recoil plate it is also in proximity to the rear sight.

the M1 carbine adjustable rear sight had settings from 100-300 yards

I suspect the 50 would mean that the carbine was sighted in at 50 yards or meters which would be more suitable for an urban environment.

Thoughts?

Ch-P777

The 30 Carbine is not a target rifle, it'sdesigned for fast action on a 14" to 18" area..  I zero about 5 inches low at 200.

This post wanders off topic but in Replies #29 and #38 mention is made of having the 50 on the stock:

http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=37506" rel="nofollow - http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=37506

@ sheepdoc, you mentioned: " the serial number stamped in the stock and a white sticky label on the stock that might have Hebrew Written on it"

Link: https://www.gunboards.com/threads/inland-m1-carbine-serial-numbered-stock.245343/

https://www.gunboards.com/threads/inland-m1-carbine-serial-numbered-stock.245343/post-1953726" rel="nofollow - #7  •  https://www.gunboards.com/threads/inland-m1-carbine-serial-numbered-stock.245343/post-1953726" rel="nofollow -

"My Israeli import has the serial number on the LEFT side of the stock. It also came with a peel-away sticker written in Hebrew pasted on the stock also."

FWIW,

Charlie-P777

-------------
Living Free because of those that serve.....

This one is Just a 3 

https://www.milsurps.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=68251&d=1451272258" rel="nofollow - https://www.milsurps.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=68251&d=1451272258

https://www.milsurps.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=68425&d=1451714406" rel="nofollow - https://www.milsurps.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=68425&d=1451714406

I'll stick with an inspector or acceptance location ID .

Owner of the one pictured and described as upside down 30 now believes it appears closer to being a number 50 but can't be positive. It is a Israeli return with the serial number stamped in the stock and also CAI import stamped.

@ SHEEPDOG,

Does the tag on yours resemble this one, location wise ?

painter777 wrote: Owner replied to me about the stock with the number 3. It is not a Import and does not have the serial number stamped in to the stock. Owner of the one pictured and described as upside down 30 now believes it appears closer to being a number 50 but can't be positive. It is a Israeli return with the serial number stamped in the stock and also CAI import stamped.

Well now we see the 3 is not from an Israeli numbered stock, just a stock with a number in the same location.

Cropping and flipping the "30" from the picture Charlie posted above It would be a funky font 3, but I can also see a 5 that has a dent making it look like a 3. Lets call this inconclusive.

 Is it an  0  with an upside down 3 or 5 or is the whole number upside down?

Looking on the forum I found these pics.

another upside down.

sideways facing shooter

Seems they did not hold a direction, or maybe the direction means something?

Going through my stocks I found 5 with the serial number in the location used by the Israelis.

This is a different location that is sometimes seen on the Italian returns.

Only one of them had the 50 (upright) marking near the recoil plate. all others had no markings except a partial rebuild marking (AA??)

I personally observed many Israeli returns with the 50 as well as others have reported the 50 as being common.

If it was an inspectors marking or acceptance stamp why wouldn't all of them have the marking? Is it possibly only one inspectors marking has been observed?

Consider this, Would an inspectors marking be in Hebrew?

The next question I asked myself is if they would use Hebrew numbers if it was for sight marks?

Looking at a limited amount of Israeli made guns (Uzi, DROR etc) I see the serial numbers and sight markings use the Arabic numbers. The manufacturers name and model is in Latin alphabet. long that some have Hebrew lettering as well. Maybe someone has the time to look into that further.

Maybe someone knows a person that served with the Israeli Defense Forces and reach out to them to find out about inspectors marking and sight markings. Would they have bothered to sight arms in at 50 meters or yards?

We can also ask out members to report any Israeli stock and if there are any markings near the recoil plate area. This an be personally owned or even spotted online auctions etc.

As your PM said-

number 50 to the left of recoil plate

number 50 to the right of recoil plate.

Can you post picture or describe the numbers orientation ?

Thx,

Charlie-P777

Checked the only Israeli stock I own, it is on a CAI import, NPM with OI stock, STD/PRD rebuild stamp. There are no numbers stamped near the recoil plate but there is what appears to be a circled 1 or 7 on the bottom of the hand grip. Frank D posted a pic of a similar marking on MILSURPS.

Wayne, One of the pictures I posted with a 50 above is from a forum post. It also has a number on the bottom of the grip.

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/my-winchester-carbine-what-have-i-got_topic3631.html" rel="nofollow -

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/my-winchester-carbine-what-have-i-got_topic3631.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/my-winchester-carbine-what-have-i-got_topic3631.html

Thanks to Frank Derrico for his help.

A link to the Milsurps thread:

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=72597" rel="nofollow - https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=72597

Charlie-P777

Edit To Add: Dan, Trim em how you want em.

Stenciled White number 157 near the oiler slot.

GI links below to pics.

Bottom of this page has a link to Milsurps where I posted some of the pictures described above.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/rifles/military-rifles-m1-carbine/world-war-ii-us-standard-products-m1-carbine-30-light-rifle-korea-vietnam-scarce-carbine-equipped-with-an-underwood-barrel-.cfm?gun_id=101642790" rel="nofollow - https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/rifles/military-rifles-m1-carbine/world-war-ii-us-standard-products-m1-carbine-30-light-rifle-korea-vietnam-scarce-carbine-equipped-with-an-underwood-barrel-.cfm?gun_id=101642790

https://images.gunsinternational.com/listings_sub/acc_87874/gi_101605692/World-War-II-US-STANDARD-PRODUCTS-M1-Carbine-30-Light-Rifle-Korea-Vietnam-SCARCE-CARBINE-Equipped-wi_101605692_87874_10A8FD38A45B20D9.jpg" rel="nofollow - https://images.gunsinternational.com/listings_sub/acc_87874/gi_101605692/World-War-II-US-STANDARD-PRODUCTS-M1-Carbine-30-Light-Rifle-Korea-Vietnam-SCARCE-CARBINE-Equipped-wi_101605692_87874_10A8FD38A45B20D9.jpg

https://images.gunsinternational.com/listings_sub/acc_87874/gi_101605692/World-War-II-US-STANDARD-PRODUCTS-M1-Carbine-30-Light-Rifle-Korea-Vietnam-SCARCE-CARBINE-Equipped-wi_101605692_87874_3D46E7F0140FB208.jpg" rel="nofollow - https://images.gunsinternational.com/listings_sub/acc_87874/gi_101605692/World-War-II-US-STANDARD-PRODUCTS-M1-Carbine-30-Light-Rifle-Korea-Vietnam-SCARCE-CARBINE-Equipped-wi_101605692_87874_3D46E7F0140FB208.jpg

I think it would be a good idea to have a copy of the IMI Carbine SP Ammo Data sheet fellow member GotSnlB28 located. And a Link here for that posting:

IMI - IDF Surplus Ammo Post:

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/imi-30-carbine-110gr-jsp-idf-police-ammo_topic5399_post41627.html?KW=#41627" rel="nofollow - http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/imi-30-carbine-110gr-jsp-idf-police-ammo_topic5399_post41627.html?KW=#41627

I Also Posted a New Topic on Milsurps looking for anyone who might have served with the IDF or Police / Security in Israel looking for anyone who might have any knowledge with the number 50 stamped stocks.

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=73974&p=497910#post497910" rel="nofollow - https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=73974&p=497910#post497910

Charlie-P777

I don't have proof yet, but am currently searching out anyone who served using the M1 Carbine in Israel who may know or can verify that the 50 stamp does indeed mean it was sighted in for 50 meters.

If I make any progress I'll update this posting.

Enjoy your Sunday,

Charlie-P777

It may be a little more than sighted in at 50 meters, It might be sighted in at 50 meters with that special ammo.

Need to find someone with an unmolested since return and see if they have sighting issues and maybe Wayne can fire some and then some USGI spec ammo and compare the ballistics, both at 50 yards.

It seems you guys got all the ducks in a row, One more step and we may be able to put this one in the books!

+Edit to add+

I just looked up the ammo on GB and seems the price jumped, but confirmed what I was looking for.

I figured the (SP) was soft point. The ammo on GB confirms this.

I figured best to join these two or at least tie them together, so the IMI Ammo info was here also.

sheepdoc wrote: He said the M1 carbine was a common arm used by the home guard there.

Any chance he would be willing to translate the labeling on the ammunition in this thread?

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/imi-30-carbine-110gr-jsp-idf-police-ammo_topic5399_post41627.html?KW=#41627" rel="nofollow - http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/imi-30-carbine-110gr-jsp-idf-police-ammo_topic5399_post41627.html?KW=#41627

edit: Nevermind. Painter777 found a translation and posted the info. in the thread linked above.

I have an Israeli return stock with the normal SN on the left side.  On the right side, right above the trigger, it is stamped 250 in 3/16 inch numbers. 

Brett 

https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/imi-box-label-30-carbine/23874/2" rel="nofollow - https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/imi-box-label-30-carbine/23874/2

I've messaged with one of those who left a reply..... jonnyc

He posted this reply on The Milsurps Link:

"I ran a village/kibbutz armory in Israel for about 4 years. I had 40 M-1 Carbines in stock and I don't recall any of the stamped markings you have shown. Now back then (1980s) I was military and much more into shooting than collecting, so I may have seen and ignored those stamps. We did use a 50 yard range for Carbine training, so that might explain the 50 mark."

Here is a Israeli return NPM on GB with a 100 stamped on the right side.

We have listed 50, 100, and 250

Here is a 200

Dan speculated about that earlier.   It could make sense if they all were resighted to 50 meters.  But now it seems less likely to me the stocks would be stamped to alert the users of the range it was sighted to.   I think the evidence now points more toward some sort of logistics or tracking need. 

I could be completely wrong but think its worth looking in this direction too.

I suggest this because of the following:

* So far the IMI surplus police ammo seems to shoot with about the same trajectory at 100 yards as the Korean surplus.

* The known stamps are 50, 100, 200, 250.  That seems like an awful lot of discrepancy to ask the person issued the carbine to remember when push comes to shove.  For example at 100 yards there's about what? an 8 to 12" difference in a POI when using the tall flip sight instead of the short one.  

* Locations vary and some stamps are inked others, at least some 50s are not.    For field use, consistancy of location and ease of reading ought to be a high priority.

keep in mind the ammo found that was designed for 50 meters. See Charlies post above

I had speculated that the 50 marked carbines were sighted in fro that ammo and were used in the congested city and urban areas .

Unless there was ammo for 100, 200, 250 it may be those carbines used normal ammo and those marked for sighted range?

I posted a link in the ammo thread

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/imi-30-carbine-110gr-jsp-idf-police-ammo_topic5399.html#43659" rel="nofollow - http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/imi-30-carbine-110gr-jsp-idf-police-ammo_topic5399.html#43659

I understand.  I'm simply suggesting there may be alternative explanations.  It's possible IMI's mention of 50 meters may relate to factors other than POA.     I read IMI's sentence as the ammunition only has accuracy that can be counted to hit the intended target up to 50 meters. Based on IMI's comma placement, I don't think it means the terminal effects mentioned afterwords become less reliable after 50 meters.   (Also its hard to imagine much velocity lost after 50 yards. )

If the loading is is not consistant enough to recommend for reliable hits at 100 yards, that would be consistant with Paul Harrell's recent comparison of some IMI 5.56.  

Hope that clarifies my thinking and why I even mentioned it.