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Who made this stock?

Printed From: The Carbine Collector's Club
Category: The Club
Forum Name: Parts Markings
Forum Description: Questions and Answers
URL: http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4978
Printed Date: Mar 01 2024 at 5:12am
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Topic: Who made this stock?
Posted By: 1989LX
Subject: Who made this stock?
Date Posted: Oct 20 2020 at 7:45pm
Sorry if this is the wrong forum! I picked this stock up off of ePay recently (Auction number 224183750479). It was a cheap high wood that hasn't been re-arsenaled in spite of the obvious, so I figured if anything, it may make a decent shooter stock. These photos are from the auction, and I do not have any of my own yet as I just got it in tonight and I am currently letting it soak in RLO as this thing was pretty dry. The sling well has no obvious markings, and where the buttplate goes there is an extra hole on the top and bottom. The stock to me, appears to have type 1 barrel band markings, as well as appearing to be made out of walnut with the inlays possibly being Pine. Comparing to other stocks I have, I think this may have been an Inland, but I wanted to ask you all if you guys had an idea as to who made it.

Photos:

http://photos.app.goo.gl/EoYyhCqLZnvVXA189" rel="nofollow - http://photos.app.goo.gl/EoYyhCqLZnvVXA189







Album link if the photos fail to appear for whatever reason:
http://photos.app.goo.gl/EoYyhCqLZnvVXA189%20" rel="nofollow - https://photos.app.goo.gl/EoYyhCqLZnvVXA189



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USGI magazines are like potato chips, you can't have just one!



Replies:
Posted By: W5USMC
Date Posted: Oct 20 2020 at 8:05pm
I magnified the pic of of the sling well, look close at possible remnants of an OI marking, but did Overton stocks have extra holes under the butt plate? Regardless, you got that thing pretty cheap!

 


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Wayne
USMC Retired
NRA Life Member


Posted By: 1989LX
Date Posted: Oct 20 2020 at 8:15pm
Originally posted by W5USMC W5USMC wrote:

I magnified the pic of of the sling well, look close at possible remnants of an OI marking. Regardless, you got that thing pretty cheap!

 


I saw that in person, yet I wasn't 100% sure if it really was an OI or not. I'll definitely take some closeups of that area under bright light tomorrow and report back. I thought it was inland initially because of the crossed cannons looking very similar, if not identical to one on an AA marked OI I have. I've honestly never seen a stock with extra holes under the buttplate, so I can't help you there unfortunately.

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USGI magazines are like potato chips, you can't have just one!


Posted By: painter777
Date Posted: Oct 20 2020 at 9:58pm
Hard to tell from the sanding if the CC is real.
Nose profile reminds me of a early Underwood stock.

Can you picture in front of the wood bridge so we can see how aggressive the milling/router work is?
When you can.

Charlie-P777


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Living Free because of those that serve.....


Posted By: 1989LX
Date Posted: Oct 20 2020 at 10:24pm
Originally posted by painter777 painter777 wrote:

Hard to tell from the sanding if the CC is real.
Nose profile reminds me of a early Underwood stock.

Can you picture in front of the wood bridge so we can see how aggressive the milling/router work is?
When you can.

Charlie-P777


Yes, I can certainly do that once it is day outside. I have no reason to doubt the CC is fake as it definitely looks to have been there for a long time, as has the name carved into the grip, but this is only my observations, and admittingly, I'm not the most knowledgeable on such stamps, so take that with a grain of salt.

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USGI magazines are like potato chips, you can't have just one!


Posted By: Smokpole
Date Posted: Oct 21 2020 at 11:26am
Try lighting the sling bevel at an angle. Sometimes the angled lighting can help reveal the markings better than direct lighting.

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OGCA Life member
NRA Life member
Ashtabula Rod and Gun Life member


Posted By: 1989LX
Date Posted: Oct 21 2020 at 1:25pm
Afternoon gentlemen. I took some photos in sunlight of the stock, and of a few areas I was asked to take photos of, namely the bridge and CC. Hopefully, these work. If you all want higher res photos, they're in the google photos album in the original post.









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USGI magazines are like potato chips, you can't have just one!


Posted By: 03manV
Date Posted: Oct 21 2020 at 1:55pm
With the stock ordnance wheel that size and location it almost has to be Inland.
With the mods make to the stock, the original mfg really makes little difference, JMHO.


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Don


Posted By: 1989LX
Date Posted: Oct 21 2020 at 2:22pm
Originally posted by 03manV 03manV wrote:

With the stock that size and location it almost has to be Inland.
With the mods make to the stock, the original mfg really makes little difference, JMHO.


I understand your opinion and what was done to it. I was more less trying to figure out the manufacturer to add to my notes and because I was genuinely stumped on it. And too, if need be, I can always use it as a shooter stock as well. Thanks for the help not only you but everyone else too! 

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USGI magazines are like potato chips, you can't have just one!


Posted By: New2brass
Date Posted: Oct 21 2020 at 2:23pm
Off the top of my head only S&C, Marlin (for Underwood) and Winchester stocks had the additional holes.
There may be others.
(This does not include potbelly stocks)
One thing to check is the inside walls and bridge for markings

The CC is clearly not IBM (SCB) nor Underwood. It is not Inland.
The picture from the angle may be skewing the picture.
There is one item making me say not Winchester, but with that I will let those more intimate with Winchester to take a look.


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http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/club-assistance-saginaw-receivers_topic4716.html" rel="nofollow - Club Survey Saginaw Receivers


Posted By: painter777
Date Posted: Oct 21 2020 at 6:29pm
I looked under butt plates today. All were Type I or Type II Hi-woods.

Single hole:
S-HB, OI, HI, RSG (SG), RSG (S'G'), IR, RSG TO I (TRANSFER), RMC, RMC TO I (TRANSFER), RMC B, QRMC, TRIMBLE FOR NPM, TRIMBLE FOR SG, S-HB, SJ AND LW-B, JL-B, JL, P-U,     (Assume IR-IP)

Three holes:
WRA, SC-B, S&C-U, M-U, BR-B, J

No examples of HQ.

Examples of any replacement stocks that are marked in the sling well requested.. Like M and bomb, P and any others.

The 2 Extra holes on the OP's stock appear larger than those on a WRA stock.
You can compare them to a picture in the Milsurps link below.
The milling forward of the bridge shows a larger / wider diameter router (?) bit was used than found on WRA stocks, which had a smaller less aggressive bit used. I'll add a couple example pictures below.
So much sanding has been done that other clues we attribute to WRA stocks can't be seen.
See this link about common stock clues found on WRA stocks:

  https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=46635" rel="nofollow - https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=46635

The Crossed Cannon stamp appears to be a copy. I do not believe it is real.
The Inlayed wood appears to be Oak.

Compare the pictures below to the OP's. These will
 show the smaller diameter bits used to cut forward of the wood bridge on WRA stocks:

 

I feel it's a Marlin made Underwood stock, but that's JMO.

Respectfully Submitted,
Charlie-P777


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Living Free because of those that serve.....


Posted By: Smokpole
Date Posted: Oct 21 2020 at 8:18pm
Looking at the angled shot of the sling bevel, the marking looks like a U oriented about 30° to the left. With the wood removal in front of it, it could well be an M-U marked stock.

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OGCA Life member
NRA Life member
Ashtabula Rod and Gun Life member


Posted By: 1989LX
Date Posted: Oct 21 2020 at 8:38pm
Originally posted by Smokpole Smokpole wrote:

Looking at the angled shot of the sling bevel, the marking looks like a U oriented about 30° to the left. With the wood removal in front of it, it could well be an M-U marked stock.


Forgive me for sounding crass, but could you point out where you believe an M-U or similar once was? I've gone over it with magnifying glasses and bright lights but for the life of me could not see any markings at all. I did notice that some wood was removed, which for what reason I cannot figure out.

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USGI magazines are like potato chips, you can't have just one!


Posted By: m1a1fan
Date Posted: Oct 21 2020 at 9:23pm
Looks like a Milton Bradley (BR-B) stock. The ones I've seen have 3 holes (no numbers) and a sling well profile simliar to Winch, but not as angled and more rounded at the edges. Thought I had posted pictures in a previous thread and will look for them or repost.

The OP's stock has some kind of mark on the bridge. Could just be dents though.


Posted By: Smokpole
Date Posted: Oct 21 2020 at 10:13pm
Look just ahead of the vertical "grind" mark near the top. Looks like a faint U tipped toward the left. The triangular sanded area just below it is where the M- would have been. Could also look a bit like a partial 0 but it is a little too big for the typical OI.

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OGCA Life member
NRA Life member
Ashtabula Rod and Gun Life member


Posted By: m1a1fan
Date Posted: Oct 24 2020 at 12:29pm
For reference, a Milton Bradley High Wood BR-B Stock

The angle of the sling well inlet (not sure what this area is called), appears different depending on how the picture is taken.

Left Image: Shows the inlet angle better.
Right Image: Appears flatter.


3 holes under the butt plate. Machining marks are diagonal whereas the OP's are horizontal.
Left Image: Straight on view
Right Image: Lying flat view



Posted By: 1989LX
Date Posted: Oct 25 2020 at 12:05am
If you all would like them, I can take better, clearer photos of the sling well when there is daylight.

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USGI magazines are like potato chips, you can't have just one!


Posted By: New2brass
Date Posted: Oct 25 2020 at 9:12am

If you are taking pictures then outside under a tree or in the shade results in very good pictures.
In direct sun it casts hard shadows ans could bleach markings.

Another way to get markings to show is direct light run across the top of the markings which will create mini shadows in the markings which the camera can sometimes pick up what the eye does not see





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http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/club-assistance-saginaw-receivers_topic4716.html" rel="nofollow - Club Survey Saginaw Receivers


Posted By: 1989LX
Date Posted: Oct 25 2020 at 12:41pm
I'll keep those tips in mind. Thanks Dan!

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USGI magazines are like potato chips, you can't have just one!


Posted By: NavyFC(SW)
Date Posted: Nov 19 2020 at 3:05pm
I could use a little help on some of my stock markings, first does anyone know how the inspector "K" was at Augusta Arsenal? also what does the "z" on the bottom of the handle on the stock stand for, and in the sling well, there is a "J" stamped, I have seen where is is a battle field replacement stock, a Jewell Bro Co marking and a Jamestown lounge stamp, the stamp on the right side of the stock resembles the Jamestown Lounge cross cannons Stamp. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks ...


Posted By: W5USMC
Date Posted: Nov 19 2020 at 4:25pm
@NavyFC(SW), sounds like a Jewel Bros. stock. Can you post some pictures?

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Wayne
USMC Retired
NRA Life Member


Posted By: painter777
Date Posted: Nov 19 2020 at 5:26pm
Here's a CC from a Jewel stock.
The 'Hot Dog'






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Living Free because of those that serve.....


Posted By: NavyFC(SW)
Date Posted: Nov 19 2020 at 7:41pm


here are the pictures of the stock

*edit* to put space between pictures and words


Posted By: painter777
Date Posted: Nov 19 2020 at 10:23pm
NavyFC(SW)
Welcome to TCCC,
Nice clean looking stock and markings.
I see you found the post on the CMP with many of the AA +letter Inspector stamps.
As your finding, there are many.

Cheers
Ch-P777


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Living Free because of those that serve.....


Posted By: New2brass
Date Posted: Nov 20 2020 at 9:51am
That is a nice crisp stock. If you use the search bar for the word "hotdog" or 'hot dog" you will find threads with the J stocks.

That marking found on the bottom of the grip has been seen on some of the NRA sales. Possibly from Army storage.
I similar marking has been seen on many IBM stocks so it is unclear if there was a tremendous amount of the IBMs or if IBM was stamping the marking


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http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/club-assistance-saginaw-receivers_topic4716.html" rel="nofollow - Club Survey Saginaw Receivers


Posted By: NavyFC(SW)
Date Posted: Nov 24 2020 at 12:38pm
Thanks everyone for the info on the stock markings


Posted By: painter777
Date Posted: Aug 09 2021 at 2:40pm
Originally posted by painter777 painter777 wrote:

 
HOLES UNDER BUTTPLATE:

Single hole:
S-HB, OI, HI, RSG (SG), RSG (S'G'), IR, RSG TO I (TRANSFER), RMC, RMC TO I (TRANSFER), RMC B, QRMC, TRIMBLE FOR NPM, TRIMBLE FOR SG, S-HB, SJ AND LW-B, JL-B, JL, P-U,     (Assume IR-IP),  Circled K often thought made by Keystone,

Three holes:
WRA, SC-B, S&C-U, M-U, BR-B, J, SA

No examples of HQ.

Need Examples of any replacement stocks that are marked in the sling well requested.. Like M and bomb, P, and IIRC P-1 or PJ? and any others.

Updated: 8-9-21

Charlie-P777


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Living Free because of those that serve.....


Posted By: painter777
Date Posted: Oct 06 2023 at 5:30pm
HOLES UNDER BUTTPLATE:

Single hole:
S-HB, OI, HI, RSG (SG), RSG (S'G'), IR, RSG TO I (TRANSFER), RMC, RMC TO I (TRANSFER), RMC B, QRMC, TRIMBLE FOR NPM, TRIMBLE FOR SG, S-HB, SJ AND LW-B, JL-B, JL, P-U, HQ     (Assume IR-IP),  Circled K often thought made by Keystone,

Three holes:
WRA, SC-B, S&C-U, M-U, BR-B, J, SA

Need Examples of any replacement stocks that are marked in the sling well requested.. Like M and bomb, P, and IIRC P-1 or PJ? and any others.

ETA: HQ on 10/6/23
Couldn't edit previous list.

Charlie - Painter777


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Living Free because of those that serve.....



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