Since I was lucky and got an Un-Quality from RTI when I ordered the lowest priced M1 Carbine I talked myself into taking another shot. 

With that in mind, I called them and asked if they had any 'project' Carbines, as in not listed for sale and still available cheaper as they may need some repair or replacement stock etc.  Turns out they do and I was able to get myself a 'project' for $300 less than what is listed as the lowest price on the website.

I know most folks want them in great shape, but I was looking for one to bring back to life.  Figured there may be others with that same mindset here.  If so it  would be worth giving them a call as the one I'm getting is not one of the 16 remaining on the website listing.

Who knows, maybe I'll get lucky again :)

carbinekid wrote: Did they happen to say what issues you can expect the carbine to have?

Sounds like it might be damaged stocks. 

For what it's worth.  I got the early Inland carbine today that I got for $300 less than the lowest price carbines listed.  The issue was in fact a missing piece from the stock.   Again I got lucky I believe.  It's an early Inland, serial number 332XXX.  The barrel is dated 5-43.  It does have a bayonet lug as well as the flip safety and Type II rear sight.  Everything else seems to be original.  The stock although missing a piece, seems to be the one it came with originally. The cartouche is visible on the right side of the stock and it appears to be a high stock as well. A Type I handguard I believe too.  No Springfield Armory stamp like I had on the Un-Quality I got from RTI. 

When I picked it up today at the local gun shop/FFL there happened to be a gunsmith there who also owns carbines.  I asked him what he thought.  He looked it over and told me the barrel looked great and everything was functioning well.  He then told me to clean it a bit and go shoot it :)

So I got lucky a second time.  I know some folks have been unhappy with their carbine from RTI, but both exceeded my expectations.  And they are pieces of history and that's what matters in the end to me.

Some other views to follow.

and more

I agree. Although I'm happy for those that have purchased from RTI and received exactly what they paid for, good for them. The "ONLY" reason I'm happy for the recent RTI carbines is that it has driven up the value my CMP carbines. For the money RTI is asking on some of these, there are much better condition deals out there with a little invested time to look. 

Even if not completely correct, if mine would keep them the way they are. If only RTI knew what they had.

5.62 is not an early production. Lots of brand new posters are always promoting the purchase of items like these every time something similar pops up. It's been long enough for people with decades of experience to evaluate what we're seeing. I've seen this exact thing happen several times on different arm platforms.

After they're gone you won't see many of these brand new posters involved on the specific forums. Investment? Probably not.

I'm glad to see RTI at least return these MAP M1 Carbines back us. I wish we could return others as well in many other countries.....I know South Korea has an excess of 1M....the Philippines also have a pile of carbines waiting to return, that would be a CMP dream once again.

My last CMP carbine purchase was in the early 2000's and purchased my entire quota for service grade. Boy was I in heaven when the Fed Ex truck backed into my driveway with all those carbines! 

I wanted an M1 carbine in a WW2 configuration that wasn't a cheap repro or some CMP hand-me-down that's been bubba'd and swapped by 300 people. I enjoy shooting, and knowing the rifle consists of original parts. 

Are quality originals out there? Sure there are. But some of us have young mouths to feed and don't want to spend thousands on them. Again, not everyone is an obsessive collector and some of us enjoy these rifles for what they are. RTI imports fit that purpose for me and others. 

Tastes change as well. One might start out collecting every M1A1 butt plate mold position number then sell all of them and switch to IP’s, Presentations, I Cuts or perhaps volunteer to help the club.

That's the beauty of the hobby. There is no 'right way" to do this. We can set our own standards.  The RTI carbines appealed to the part of me that likes the wayward.  And by taking a chance on what I'd get, it added to the fun.  Obviously I got lucky with the UN-Quality and even the early Inland.   My first carbine way back when was a Korean import.  I ended up selling it and regretting it forever.  These let me kill that regret in that it feels like I'm 'saving' some history. 

The other carbine I have is a very nice Inland and a bring back that has the original parts.  I want to keep that one nice, where I feel like the two RTI's can be " played with", although I suppose I should go easy on the Un-Quality :)

I'm sure over time I'll want to get another carbine and will most likely go slow and be more specfic about what I want.  But these met the stay at home need I was feeling :)

Dan

Totally in agreement that the historical aspect is pretty intriguing to watch it unfold in real time and that makes sales. If I were closer I'd have been on the road to make a video to publish online and in order to select a couple for myself.

So, everybody pretty well knows I will gladly buy everything from junk, imports as well as decent quality. Most know I call myself an enthusiast and hobbiest but not so much a collector. Most know I've only been involved for about 10-11 years. I got into these only because I wanted a cheap machinegun and the M2 Carbine fit the bill.

I still try to buy M1A1 butt plates of every position #, IP stuff and still will still buy flip sights.

The RTIs aren't very affordable is really what I've been saying. There were some bargains in the early featured ones that were. People (many people) spent enough to buy almost any of the ones listed below.

The last original Carbines I've seen sell locally within the last year  6-7 months are:

Underwood. All early features. Spectacular metal condition. $1000

Saginaw S'G' early features, but straight hammer era. $1150 $1250

Win first 15000 serial, $1700

Inland mid production with a soldier's personalization and a couple acc's, $900

A fairly original SP with early features, $950

Actually I can't remember the very last one but handled it personally and the price was I think $750-900? EDIT (may have been an Und with flip staking only, but adjustable sight.) And maybe deldriver can remember if it was a type I band gun or what it was. Was a deal though and I had it apart to check it over.

There were 2 others, IBMs I didn't get a good look at which I also can't remember the prices but anyone here would've bought. That is just the shows and personal offerings I personally witnessed in one small bubble of the world.

https://www.royaltigerimports.com/default.asp" rel="nofollow - https://www.royaltigerimports.com/default.asp

There is a collection that I would like to see. All of the importers...I like it!  That is quite the list and as a bonus probably not much humping going on in that space.

Kudos to all carbine collector varieties.

Probably deserves its own thread, but I would love to hear what is currently tickling the fancy of club members.

It's just called a flip sight, btw. It only has one flip sight. 

What I notice, and what I hope some old-time collectors understand, is the issue of demographics. Most seem to be older ("boomers") and many of us joining the hobby are younger. Should the hobby and knowledge die out in a few years or carry on? Shouldn't our own sons or grandsons also be able to cherish the old carbine sitting in the gun cabinet, understanding what it is and how it was built? Who within our family (several generations ago) carried it in war?

I was reading about a house building company in Japan that had been making hand-crafted woodworking for over 1,000 years. Japanese houses are all wood. They are struggling to stay afloat and find a newer generation to carry on the business after a millennia because most young folks have no interest in old crafts or hobbies. That stuff is a tragedy. 

Carbines are getting harder to find and the memory of those within our families who carried it in WW2 and Korea (or even Vietnam) grows dimmer with each year. I don't care if mine came out of Ethiopia or a museum, I'm eager to learn about them and enioy them even if old-timers get their jimmies rustled over the word "sights" with an "s" at the end. 

Who cares what company sells it or what beef you have with them. They're great rifles and now have a fresh crop of newbies reading Ruth's book and other resources so they can pass on knowledge in the future. 

Not really sure anyone really got their "jimmies rustled", I think he was correcting the terminology that you used, as it was technically incorrect by implying plural. Part of learning is learning to use the correct nomenclature of the parts.

 

Why Carbines? wrote: as I saw on the CMP site the term cork sniffer.

I kinda thought the "cork sniffing" post on the CMP Forum was funny, it made me laugh, but then again I laugh at a lot of posts over there. 

Horrible_Aim wrote: There's a tendency within any hobbyist group for old timers to shoot down those entering or those who don't know as much. It's understandable (especially when simple questions get asked, or a flood of new products could potentially devalue their own possessions) but every one of us started as rookies at one point in time.

Nobody is picking on you. None of the Ethiopians have devalued the Carbines we already own. We know these things because we've been here for a while watching the trends. You make lots of incorrect assumptions about people you don't know as well as the history you don't know about these people. Many people here know more about Carbines than I do because I don't read the newletters.

What I notice, and what I hope some old-time collectors understand, is the issue of demographics. Most seem to be older ("boomers") and many of us joining the hobby are younger. Should the hobby and knowledge die out in a few years or carry on? Shouldn't our own sons or grandsons also be able to cherish the old carbine sitting in the gun cabinet, understanding what it is and how it was built? Who within our family (several generations ago) carried it in war?

I believe you've taken it personally how someone else perceives the condition and pricing of the Ethiopian Carbines. And similarly you have not acknowledged the positives stated about them by some of those people. Me, for instance.

You speak fluent German just as the operator of RTI does. You lived in Germany just as he has. You've promoted the purchase of RTI Carbines just as the operator of RTI has. Coincidence? What is your relationship with anyone at IO/RTI? And if you deny any relationship, will you still be active after the Ethiopian Carbines are gone? Additionally, we've been here long enough to see new eager people come in to ask a bunch of questions to turn around and use against us when they try to sell us their stuff for a premium after milking info. Will you be around to help new people? To tell them it's a slide and not an op rod, or a bolt and not a carrier? I hope so. One of my traits or flaws is skepticism.

I was reading about a house building company in Japan that had been making hand-crafted woodworking for over 1,000 years. Japanese houses are all wood. They are struggling to stay afloat and find a newer generation to carry on the business after a millennia because most young folks have no interest in old crafts or hobbies. That stuff is a tragedy.

It's the same with many crafts. Look at how terrible the musicianship of today is compared to period ending in 1980. In music all the young people think you do is sample what "old timers" did. Beer is one of the few crafts that is finally regaining lost abilities.

As for the Japanese, all diverse cultures are being dismantled in order to muddy them into one more controllable mass. You can trace the current trend straight to the outcome of WWII. For 40 years churches have told people to go to Africa to make themselves feel virtuous (self idolatry) while the African population is expected to be almost half the world's people by 2100. None of the churches want to go to help the disappearing Japanese people where they have a deeper, richer history and culture than the American people have. And we all know the Asians perform higher when academically tested. Harder to be impressed with yourself by helping people like the Japanese.

Carbines are getting harder to find and the memory of those within our families who carried it in WW2 and Korea (or even Vietnam) grows dimmer with each year. I don't care if mine came out of Ethiopia or a museum, I'm eager to learn about them and enioy them even if old-timers get their jimmies rustled over the word "sights" with an "s" at the end.

I love the Carbine but not because of it's war history. In fact, I love it in despite it's war role. And I'm aware enough to understand that such is a minority opinion. It hasn't stopped my love for it, nor my advocating for it and the hobby.

Who cares what company sells it or what beef you have with them. They're great rifles and now have a fresh crop of newbies reading Ruth's book and other resources so they can pass on knowledge in the future.

Of course it matters who sells it. We have a seller we call STB. It matters. I hope you're genuinely interested in the Carbine after these are sold out. We'll see.

Some haven't agreed as much with me, but the Ethiopians demonstrate a bit of interesting history, or reinforce it.

Horrible_Aim wrote: As for sticking around, I'll probably be divorced if I walk through the door with another carbine this year,

The trick is that they all look almost identical to the unknowing. When I've been asked by my wife, "Is that a new one?". I can honestly reply, "This one? No, it's not a new one." Because technically "new" would mean it was just made, right?

As far as terminal performance goes a reply is difficult due to regional differences. In the United States there is a healthy reloading community and expanding bulletts for reloading are readily available, good quality expanding bulletts that will expand at 200 yards at 30 Carbine velocities are required for hunting in my opinion. 

Also that performance depends on the ability of the shooter to achieve proper shot placement and the confines of the shooting environment. In my area of the U.S. hunting deer may prohibit the hunter from entering other areas to pursue wounded game so a central nervous system or significant cardiovascular hits are desired. Many people use the 444 Marlin because of this.

With M1 Carbine sights I can easily make central nervous system hits on deer sized game at 100 yards and cardiovascular hits at 200 yards. If I have the room for them to run 100 yards or so after a cardiovascular hit then a Eastern U.S. whitetail 200 yard hunting experiance is ok for me. For me hunting for whitetail deer or smaller game within those parameters is within reasonable boundaries. 

As far as personal protection using the 30 Carbine there are many real world penetration tests on YouTube that demonstrate that the 30 Carbine  within 200 yards is as capable as the 5.56 NATO, M193, M855 and the M855A1 cartridges in the M4 or M16 rifles.

Standard Products, Underwood barrel, IBM birch stock with no rebuild stamps that I could find (only SC-B in the sling well).

I noticed "14 A" stamped on the left side of the receiver under the wood line. Any idea what this is? Couldnt find any information. 

Standard Products have a number stamped in that location.

I'm not sure anyone knows for sure what it means, but they run from single digits to teens.

Someone may have more exact data from the carbine newsletters.

Here are some pics of my carbine right out of the box:  https://m.imgur.com/a/F9u6sDf" rel="nofollow - https://m.imgur.com/a/F9u6sDf

No cleaning yet, except the stock in the second to last picture. That birch really shines with some Murphy's.

The brown patches are dirt/gunk and not rust. Maybe goat s***, I was brave enough to try smelling but couldn't tell. 

Or goat s****, still haven't ruled that out...