Print Page | Close Window

Stock cleaning

Printed From: The Carbine Collector's Club
Category: The Club
Forum Name: Safety/ Accuracy/Shooting/Ammunition/Care and Maintenance
Forum Description: What to Check, Reloading, Tips for Accuracy, Competitive/Recreational Shooting
URL: http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4442
Printed Date: Dec 09 2023 at 9:58am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Stock cleaning
Posted By: 68coupe
Subject: Stock cleaning
Date Posted: Jan 06 2020 at 5:28pm
I'd like to get a few opinions about what the preferred method of cleaning stocks from the carbon/gas deposits on the interior of the stock. I'd prefer that I not damage the finish/aging/patina on the exterior of the stock.

On a separate note, I have a rough M2 stock that needs a lot of love. Any recommendations on a full refinish?


-------------
Karl, 68 coupe
NPM, 43
Universal, 80
Kahr 1827-A1 Thompson 2019
SA M1 Garand 42
AO 1911A1
Taurus PT1911
Beretta M92(compact)



Replies:
Posted By: floydthecat
Date Posted: Jan 06 2020 at 5:59pm
Members here have a few good options on the refinish. I took advice and recently re-worked an M14 stock with several scrubbings using Murphy's Oil Soap followed by several coats of turpentine-thinned raw linseed oil after it dried. Let each coat of RLS cure for 48-72 hours before subsequent applications.

Other recommendations and recipes likely work just as well. Lay the RLS on in thin coats until you achieve the desired affect. Too much and it takes forever to cure. I was pleased with my results.




Posted By: mrguvna
Date Posted: Jan 07 2020 at 9:04am
I have done the same thing as floydthecat with great success.  BLO is easy to work with if you let it cure for a few days and only put on what the wood will soak up each time, wipe off excess.

-------------
GH


Posted By: New2brass
Date Posted: Jan 07 2020 at 1:23pm
RLO will remove the top layer of RLO and emulsify the dirt to clean it off and then new RLO can be applied. So it is a stripper (of itself) and a cleaner.
I have never used to remove carbon. I would give the wood a quick wipe with denatured or rubbing alcohol 

BLO will not remove the top layer of BLO. You cannot build up coats of BLO. BLO can chip and more difficult to touch up than RLO.

I know some veterans state they used BLO in the service, However BLO was not the correct or recommended finish for any wooden stock on any firearm in any manual I have read.

One good way to decrease the value of a collector stock is to put a finish other than RLO on it.
It is your carbine and do as you wish. 


-------------
http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/club-assistance-saginaw-receivers_topic4716.html" rel="nofollow - Club Survey Saginaw Receivers


Posted By: W5USMC
Date Posted: Jan 07 2020 at 3:03pm


-------------
Wayne
USMC Retired
NRA Life Member


Posted By: Why Carbines?
Date Posted: Jan 09 2020 at 9:46am
When I first saw the above cartoon I kinda was like what ever, but after trying the method I was really surprised how well it works. BTW, I use straight RLO, sometimes heated other times right out of the bottle, it doesn't seen to make a big difference either way.


Posted By: floydthecat
Date Posted: Jan 09 2020 at 5:27pm
I think there are 2 reasons why I thin mine with turpentine. I had read that recommendation somewhere when I was researching and my supply of RLO is very old, like years & years old...very thick.

The turpentine evaporates quickly and maybe it helps with penetration. In any event, it obviously works thinned or as-is. Whatever blows your skirt up I guess.


Posted By: m1a1fan
Date Posted: Jan 09 2020 at 8:26pm
Haven't used the turpentine cutting method yet, but I think I'll give it a try. What %? 50/50?

Have used the hand rubbed RLO method and it seems to work well. Need to experiment to figure out the best way to preserve the wood without overdoing it.



Posted By: floydthecat
Date Posted: Jan 10 2020 at 6:11am
Originally posted by m1a1fan m1a1fan wrote:

Haven't used the turpentine cutting method yet, but I think I'll give it a try. What %? 50/50?

I am thinking 50/50 may be too much and I just add some to thin the oil. Something like 25/75. I have seen various recipes, including a 33/33/33 oil, turpentine and bees wax. I would try it first on a spot inside the hand guard, or barrel channel. The turpentine serves as a carrier and will evaporate rather quickly. Just my suggestion, but I’d go with a 25/75.

Just to add some info based on what I learned. BLO is not actually boiled. It contains additives that enhance it’s drying properties. RLO can be cut with various solvents like paint-thinner, turpentine, or mineral spirits and some formulas suggest a ratio of 2-to-1 thinner-to-oil. RLO alone is ok, but it takes a long time to cure. The thinners accelerate curing time. 


Posted By: Charles
Date Posted: Jan 10 2020 at 10:07am
We've been cleaning our kitchen cabinets and my (The Gift) M1 stock with Paraffin Oil for years , available in paint stores.
It drys quickly and levies a light film that wipes off easily. It is amazing how much dirt it removes without harming the finish. 


-------------
Charles
Co B 1st Batl.115 Inf. Reg.
29th. Divi.
4.2 Heavy Mortar Co Retired
Life member NRA



Posted By: m1a1fan
Date Posted: Jan 10 2020 at 3:50pm
@floyd - I've been trying 50/50. Will try 75/25. Thanks.

@Charles - Sorry we missed the last show. Just bad timing right after the holidays. Next time and thanks for the tip.


Posted By: Donnie
Date Posted: Jan 21 2020 at 9:16pm
If a light cleaning is needed on USGI stocks, I use denatured alcohol very sparingly. I did say sparingly. Too much and you can remove the rich patina. Just a little gets the grease, goo and gummy dirt off. I then massage some RLO into the wood. My stocks love me.


Posted By: Jamesicus
Date Posted: Jan 22 2020 at 1:48pm
Originally posted by New2brass New2brass wrote:

RLO will remove the top layer of RLO and emulsify the dirt to clean it off and then new RLO can be applied ………….
Yes, that is so.

Quote …………… I know some veterans state they used BLO in the service, However BLO was not the correct or recommended ……………
In the case of carbines, during original WWII production stocks and hand guards were finished by immersion in raw linseed oil (cold pressed with no added chemicals) as approved by Ordnance (Carbine Committee). Subsequent Field Manuals and Supply catalogs therefor prescribed raw linseed oil.

Some other thoughts:

Raw linseed oil is intended to be applied very sparingly - just a few dabs here i and there, spread on the surface and well rubbed in by hand. The idea is to build up layers of cured (by oxydization rather than evaporation of drying additives).

It seems that raw linseed oil has a bad reputation with many present day carbine collectors mainly due to its slow drying reputation - I have heard so many comments such as “it never completely dries” or “stocks treated with it are always sticky to the touch” …………… and so on. However, I believe that stocks that are maintained using raw linseed oil applied as outlined above do not possess those undesirable characteristics.

It appears that sanding operations were a headache during carbine stock production - they involved a great deal of hand labor that slowed down production and coincidentally increased the cost of each unit. A reasonably good, easy to maintain, finish was the goal and so there was not a whole lot of fine sanding - from what I have read it seems that about 150 grit sandpaper (?) was used which produced a fine enough finish that possessed good oil absorption properties.





Posted By: Jamesicus
Date Posted: Jan 22 2020 at 2:37pm
An afterthought:

I am not on a mission to “bash” boiled linseed oil, but here is a consideration:

BLO is, of course, not really boiled - it is simply raw linseed oil that is modified by adding chemical drying agents some of which are quite toxic.



Posted By: New2brass
Date Posted: Jan 22 2020 at 5:26pm
you sound fooled by them somehow being the same. They are not. Once the metallic additives are mixed it it acts differently.

You can put RLO over RLO.
You can put BLO over RLO.
You cannot put RLO over BLO
You cannot put more BLO over polymerized BLO.

You can try but it will just wipe off.

That is the beauty of RLO, it can be built up. It can clean old RLO and dirt off as well as soften the top layer so a new layer will adhere.
 Key to faster drying with RLO is to wipe off excess so it is a very thin layer.

Not all RLO is food grade.


-------------
http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/club-assistance-saginaw-receivers_topic4716.html" rel="nofollow - Club Survey Saginaw Receivers


Posted By: Jamesicus
Date Posted: Jan 22 2020 at 6:39pm
Originally posted by New2brass New2brass wrote:

you sound fooled by them somehow being the same ……………
Not fooled in my mind, but these days I occasionally seem to not express my thoughts very well - sorry.

Added via edit: I messed up the above post - my mind drifted as I was writing it - old age malfunction I guess -  I will try and concentrate and be more careful in the future (if I do post anymore that is).

Quote
…………… Not all RLO is food grade.

Yes I agree - good comment.


Posted By: 68coupe
Date Posted: Feb 19 2020 at 7:26pm
Finally got around to getting a QT of RLO. Moistened a rag and applied to my Carbine stock & hand guard. It not only removed the gunk but restored the luster to them. I'm very pleased with the results. As for the M2 stock, as I stated in the original post, it needs a LOT of love. I'm sort of pleased with the results there, but many more coats will be required to get it even close to the desired finish. More to follow...

-------------
Karl, 68 coupe
NPM, 43
Universal, 80
Kahr 1827-A1 Thompson 2019
SA M1 Garand 42
AO 1911A1
Taurus PT1911
Beretta M92(compact)


Posted By: Charles
Date Posted: Feb 20 2020 at 9:21am
There has been a lot of good advise given but has not addressed the original question , cleaning the interior of the stock except one, Scrubbing the barrel channel with Murphy Oil Soap.

-------------
Charles
Co B 1st Batl.115 Inf. Reg.
29th. Divi.
4.2 Heavy Mortar Co Retired
Life member NRA



Posted By: New2brass
Date Posted: Feb 20 2020 at 11:41am
toothbrush!

It is an interesting question considering how stocks originally had the RLO applied.
Springfield armory traditionally dipped stock into a vat of RLO for a period of time and then wiped them down.
Overton saw the issue with rag disposal. The would dip the stocks for a period of time and then move them to racks where they dried eliminating wiping them down.

I do not know what other manufactures did. but observations it seems the inside and under the buttplate seem to be absent finish. One theory is that over time the oil evaporated.

My thought would be the open grain and rough finish would soak up more oil. Then there is the fact that the oil polymerizes. Would it be possible it evaporates?

Anyway the point of all that is if it appears to have a finish I would just used RLO. 
If not I would try a barely damp rag to wipe it down. Too much moisture will raise the grain!
This goes against all my professing of keeping water away from collector stocks!

Again from my perspective as a collector I would leave the stocks alone as much as possible.
For a mixmaster or a well used carbine have at it. 
I am not crazy of any solvent on wood as over time the cellulose in the wood may break down.

I have heard of using vinegar but never tried it and concerned about putting mild acid on the stock. If I did I would wait a few days for it to evaporate so it does not affect the metal.

Hoppes no. 9 removes gunpowder residue but it may darken the wood due to the oil/preservative content.

Ballistol is slightly alkaline and emulsifies with water (damp rag cleanup) I would think safer than vinegar. They claim safe on leather, wood, and rubber. It like Hoppes leaves a thin film. 






-------------
http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/club-assistance-saginaw-receivers_topic4716.html" rel="nofollow - Club Survey Saginaw Receivers


Posted By: Jamesicus
Date Posted: Feb 20 2020 at 12:43pm


I will try and redeem myself after my first shaky post. I really just wanted to note how we cleaned and maintained our Carbines during my tenure as NCOIC of a Base Small Arms Marksmanship Training Unit (SAMTU) & Firing Range at a USAF overseas Base during the late 1950s and early 1960s when the US Cal. 30 Carbine was used for annual marksmanship training and qualification firing by enlisted personnel.


Firing Range storage rack of twenty M1 Carbines

All of our Firing Range carbines were post-WWII rebuilds.

We had a substantial inventory of carbines - I cannot remember the exact number (it has been so long ago) - but sufficient to allow frequent rotation in order to provide carbines in optimum condition for each day's training and qualification firing. The great majority were M1 models although we did have several M2 (semi-automatic/automatic select fire) models that we used for Security Police/Marksmanship Instructor training and qualification firing.


My Range Instructor staff (normally consisting of about three NCOs and four Airmen - variable due to overseas assignment rotation) conducted annual Marksmanship training and qualification firing for Base enlisted personnel usually five days per week (morning and aftertnoon relays - Monday through Friday) almost every week of the year.

They were also responsible for Range Carbine inspection and maintenance.

CLEANING and LUBRICATION

After annual qualification firing, relays were routed to the range classroom where each individual was required to disassemble (field strip), clean, lubricate and re-assemble the carbines they had just fired IAW the provisions of FM 23-7/AFM 50-4, January 1952 and under the supervision of Small Arms Marksmanship Instructors.

Disassembly - into major groups: Barrel and Receiver, Trigger Housing, Operating Slide, Bolt, Stock and Handguard.

Cleaning & Lubrication - all metal parts (including bore) were cleaned and lubricated using cleaner, rifle bore and oil, lubricating, preservative, special..

Assembly - groups were re-assembled in reverse order and carbine exterior wiped down using soft dry rags.

Stock and handguard maintenance - Oil, linseed, raw was applied to wood as determined by Small Arms Marksmanship Instructors.



Posted By: 68coupe
Date Posted: Feb 20 2020 at 6:18pm
I'd like to thank EVERYONE who provided advice & input!

I'm gonna have to get some Murphy Oil Soap and give it a whirl. The soot/carbon/gun-gas build-up on the interior of my stock has me perplexed. I tried a bit of rubbing alcohol, with very limited success. Once clean, my plan is to treat it with & as the rest of the stock, so it cleans off easily after each visit to the range. I've got to field-strip it anyway, so why not go the extra foot (not a mile, by any measure).

James, it must bring tears to your eyes knowing that most of those carbines you cared for so diligently have gone to carbine heaven. Is that photo of one of the racks you supervised? If so, I noticed a lack of slings. Why?

Thanks again to all who posted. More to follow...


-------------
Karl, 68 coupe
NPM, 43
Universal, 80
Kahr 1827-A1 Thompson 2019
SA M1 Garand 42
AO 1911A1
Taurus PT1911
Beretta M92(compact)


Posted By: Jamesicus
Date Posted: Feb 20 2020 at 8:06pm
Originally posted by 68coupe 68coupe wrote:

…………… James, it must bring tears to your eyes knowing that most of those carbines you cared for so diligently have gone to carbine heaven ……………
Well, Karl, I do have nostalgic moments. Those Carbines had served our country well for many years. Many of those I discuss here were veterans of WWII, The Korean War - and several years of day in and day out qualification firing - and constant dissassembly and assembly. What a great weapon! Uncle Sam certainly got his moneys worth! I was always impressed how well they held up in all kinds of weather and conditions with very little maintenance - Firing Range Carbines do take a beating. But all things come to an end. In the period I describe here, the Carbine was on its way out as the USAF standard issue shoulder weapon - to be replaced by the AR15/M16 rifle. When I departed Yokota AB in 1963 (or 1964, my memory fails me here) at the conclusion of my tour of duty the Range crew was already preparing to turn-in the Carbines and redoing their training lesson plans to accommodate M16 Training and qualification firing. When I arrived at George AFB (California) to take over as NCOIC of the Firing Range and Small arms Marksmanship Training there, the M16s were already in place (or soon to be) and we had to set about redesigning and rebuilding the firing range to accommodate it. The end of an era!

Quote …………… Is that photo of one of the racks you supervised? If so, I noticed a lack of slings, why?……………

It is from AF Manual 50-25: Small Arms Ranges - we had several similar racks at our Yokota AB firing range. Slings were not used for qualification firing: IAW FM 23-7/AFM 50-4 …………… “The carbine sling is used for carrying purposes only”.




Print Page | Close Window

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd. - https://www.webwiz.net