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Unserialnumbered, unfinished Carbine Receiver

Printed From: The Carbine Collector's Club
Category: The Club
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Description: Carbine Related
URL: http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4097
Printed Date: Jan 17 2020 at 9:40pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Unserialnumbered, unfinished Carbine Receiver
Posted By: Michael
Subject: Unserialnumbered, unfinished Carbine Receiver
Date Posted: Jun 05 2019 at 5:34pm
A Korean War veteran, now deceased, had this M1 Carbine receiver in his "gun parts box". All I noticed initially was the lack of a manufacturer's name and serial number. Then I noticed it is marked "Model ML". Then I realized the machining was not finished.   Your website addressed Federal Ordnance Carbine receivers, and the information provided sheds light on this item. But I have attached photos of it from various angles, in hope that the photos will prompt more knowledgeable collectors to add their insights. The receiver had a barrel attached which is noticeably shorter than standard length Carbine barrels. Did Federal Ordnance make a short carbine? And why would this receiver be incompletely finished? At what stage did Federal Ordnance add their manufacturer's name and serial number? That manufacturing sequence may add understanding. Any information would be most appreciated. I'm only sorry the Vet is no longer around, to add this part's history as he knew it.







Replies:
Posted By: GotSnlB28
Date Posted: Jun 05 2019 at 7:46pm
Looks like your pictures didn't get included.


Posted By: New2brass
Date Posted: Jun 05 2019 at 9:18pm
Pics Added

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http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/pictures-tips-sizing-and-posting-avatars_topic1083.html" rel="nofollow - Edit and post pictures


Posted By: W5USMC
Date Posted: Jun 06 2019 at 10:44am
Originally posted by Michael Michael wrote:

At what stage did Federal Ordnance add their manufacturer's name and serial number?


According to the info about Fed Ord, in the commercial carbines section off of the main club page, the Federal Ordnance manufacturers name would have been cast into the receiver when the receiver was made. It also says that the "ML" carried over to a few other manufacturers (IAI, auto ordnance) that used the same casting company that Fed Ord did.

http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_FedOrd.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_FedOrd.html

-------------
Wayne
USMC Retired
NRA Life Member


Posted By: sleeplessnashadow
Date Posted: Aug 12 2019 at 7:44am
Michael

My apologies I didn't respond sooner. I normally don't monitor the forums. Only because the time I need to spend on the web pages and research doesn't leave me much spare time.

Your receiver was cast by Lamothermic in Brewster, NY. Who they cast it for was either Federal Ordnance or IAI (Israel Arms International also as iai). Most likely Federal Ordnance but not enough has been machined to tell.

After the demise of Federal Ordnance their left over receivers were bought by Numrich Gun Parts. Who also obtained some of the IAI/iai receivers after they went bankrupt.

A number of companies and individuals have bought these receivers from Numrich. A few other companies who did machining for IAI/iai had their receivers left with them in various stages of completion. Some sold them, some finished them and built carbines with them.

So what you really have is a receiver cast by Lamothermic that wasn't finish machined, serial numbered or hardened. It was likely for Fed Ord but could have been for IAI/iai. Someone somewhere obtained it as an unfinished, un serial numbered and unhardened receiver. They may or may not have done a little machining. They may or may not of hardened it.

If the receiver was finished enough to be used whoever did it "manufactured" it and fell under all the legal requirements of a manufacturer along with mandatory application of a serial number. I doubt it happened. Numrich didn't machine them. They sold them as an unfinished receiver. No legal requirements. No serial number.

The receiver should be considered unsafe to shoot.

Barrels weren't/aren't mounted on receivers until the receiver has been completed finished and hardened. So it's unlikely the barrel was on it when it became left over surplus. The barrel was probably bought separate from the receiver with the possibility it also may have been leftover from Fed Ord.

For better or worse what you have is someones project carbine. Which was most likely legally sold to you for what it is, a non firearm with no serial number or FFL requirement

The barrel may or may not be safe. But safe to get the barrel inspected by a gunsmith to find out.

Hope this helps.

Jim






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