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IBM Round Bolt Lack of Markings

Printed From: The Carbine Collector's Club
Category: The Club
Forum Name: Parts Markings
Forum Description: Questions and Answers
URL: http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4056
Printed Date: Jul 04 2020 at 5:10pm
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Topic: IBM Round Bolt Lack of Markings
Posted By: ncin1911
Subject: IBM Round Bolt Lack of Markings
Date Posted: May 12 2019 at 9:25am
IBM Round Bolt from my 3.935xxx
Was surprised to find no visible markings on Right or Left Lugs. Has this been observed before?





Replies:
Posted By: ncin1911
Date Posted: May 12 2019 at 10:17am
Some more right lug pics. Maybe something was there?



Posted By: tenOCEE
Date Posted: May 12 2019 at 10:28am
The first photo looks as though there was a stamp once. Maybe it was a B? It looks like they removed it.


Posted By: wa***te
Date Posted: May 12 2019 at 10:55am
Or maybe it was never stamped. 
Sometimes in manufacturing mistakes are made. I have a M1D rifle I bought from the CMP. The only marking on the rear of the receiver is the serial number. No US Rifle Cal 30 M1, etc. Not ground out, dimensions are normal. I also have a Garand bolt that came on a DCM M1 that doesn’t have a mark on it. This stuff just happens and I’m sure wartime quotas didn’t help any. DON’T FIX IT. It’s almost certainly as right as the rest of the Carbine.


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Walt


Posted By: New2brass
Date Posted: May 12 2019 at 10:56am
Second set of pictures you camera focused past the lug onto the bolt body. Suggest pulling the camera back farther to increase the depth of field.
Another way to bring out the markings is lighting from the side or at various angles as opposed to straight on. this sometimes creates shadows into the markings which makes them stand out.

As to your question of no markings. I have seen several where the markings were ever so slight that the eye did not pick up the markings. Only by playing with the lighting that the markings appeared.

What type of firing pin? you need to look at where the hammer strikes.

Normally we see the round bolt with the X on it in earlier serial number ranges. Could the finish of the lug have held it up till later?


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http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/club-assistance-saginaw-receivers_topic4716.html" rel="nofollow - Club Survey Saginaw Receivers


Posted By: ncin1911
Date Posted: May 12 2019 at 12:27pm
Not much success I am afraid.


Posted By: ncin1911
Date Posted: May 12 2019 at 12:34pm
One more.



Posted By: floydthecat
Date Posted: May 12 2019 at 12:37pm
I have one bearing a lightly struck A only.


Posted By: ncin1911
Date Posted: May 12 2019 at 12:42pm
Bolt in the rifle for good measure.



Posted By: ncin1911
Date Posted: May 12 2019 at 12:50pm
Originally posted by floydthecat floydthecat wrote:

I have one bearing a lightly struck A only.
Floyd; could I see a picture of that bolt, if not too much trouble? Thank you


Posted By: ncin1911
Date Posted: May 12 2019 at 12:56pm
Originally posted by New2brass New2brass wrote:

Second set of pictures you camera focused past the lug onto the bolt body. Suggest pulling the camera back farther to increase the depth of field.
Another way to bring out the markings is lighting from the side or at various angles as opposed to straight on. this sometimes creates shadows into the markings which makes them stand out.

As to your question of no markings. I have seen several where the markings were ever so slight that the eye did not pick up the markings. Only by playing with the lighting that the markings appeared.

What type of firing pin? you need to look at where the hammer strikes.

Normally we see the round bolt with the X on it in earlier serial number ranges. Could the finish of the lug have held it up till later?

Sorry just saw the question about FP.



Posted By: tenOCEE
Date Posted: May 12 2019 at 1:40pm
Condition of the bolt and all parts look similar don't they?


Posted By: floydthecat
Date Posted: May 12 2019 at 2:08pm
Originally posted by ncin1911 ncin1911 wrote:

Originally posted by floydthecat floydthecat wrote:

I have one bearing a lightly struck A only.
Floyd; could I see a picture of that bolt, if not too much trouble? Thank you

It’s in a carbine at the moment. I will drag it out and post a pix later.


Posted By: ncin1911
Date Posted: May 12 2019 at 2:47pm

Took the IBM & NPM out to enjoy what little sun we had yesterday.
In case anyone is interested in looking over my IBM, here is a Google photo album I threw together.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/RdwHyQ8dRxTx52iE9" rel="nofollow - https://photos.app.goo.gl/RdwHyQ8dRxTx52iE9



Posted By: GotSnlB28
Date Posted: May 12 2019 at 3:56pm
That is a nice IBM.

Sometimes parts are not marked. I have a Standard Products with an original barrel assembly that's never been messed with, however the barrel is unmarked except for the Standard Products proof P. All characteristics point to an Underwood but it's unmarked.


Posted By: floydthecat
Date Posted: May 12 2019 at 4:20pm
Us old people don't always lie on purpose....sometimes, we lie because brain cells are dead. I knew something was not struck, but it's the A that is "almost" missing. I have not looked in that carbine for a while now.Big smile






Posted By: m1a1fan
Date Posted: May 12 2019 at 4:21pm
Sometimes the marks are easy to find, sometimes not. Sometimes the marks have been worn away, partially stamped or not stamped.




Posted By: ncin1911
Date Posted: May 12 2019 at 4:49pm
Thank you for the picture Floyd, much appreciated. I have flipped this thing every which way but still not seeing anything defenitive. The bolt, just doesn't want to talk. Big smile


Posted By: ncin1911
Date Posted: May 12 2019 at 4:54pm
Thank you m1a1fan for the reply and pictures. It's the X-Files Bolt.


Posted By: ncin1911
Date Posted: May 12 2019 at 4:57pm
Originally posted by GotSnlB28 GotSnlB28 wrote:

That is a nice IBM.

Sometimes parts are not marked. I have a Standard Products with an original barrel assembly that's never been messed with, however the barrel is unmarked except for the Standard Products proof P. All characteristics point to an Underwood but it's unmarked.

Thank you; kind of partial to IBM's and happy to own this one. 


Posted By: m1a1fan
Date Posted: May 12 2019 at 5:15pm
Originally posted by ncin1911 ncin1911 wrote:

Thank you m1a1fan for the reply and pictures. It's the X-Files Bolt.

More about X marked bolts here:

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/bolts.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/bolts.html
 




Posted By: ncin1911
Date Posted: May 12 2019 at 5:20pm
Originally posted by m1a1fan m1a1fan wrote:

Originally posted by ncin1911 ncin1911 wrote:

Thank you m1a1fan for the reply and pictures. It's the X-Files Bolt.

More about X marked bolts here:

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/bolts.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/bolts.html
 



Yep frequent those pages often in between my daily reads of current and old forum posts.
My copy of WB! takes a fair share of abuse as well. LOL


Posted By: ncin1911
Date Posted: May 12 2019 at 5:23pm
In my research, I stumbled upon this old auction listing that I found interesting.
https://www.gunsamerica.com/977002920/Jesse-Harrison-IBM-Corp-M1-Carbine.htm" rel="nofollow - https://www.gunsamerica.com/977002920/Jesse-Harrison-IBM-Corp-M1-Carbine.htm



Posted By: tenOCEE
Date Posted: May 12 2019 at 7:22pm
That's your history and serial number right there. Interesting.

Here are the two round AOBs I have close by. Both are lightly struck and one is higher on the right lug than the other. Also look at the underlying milling pattern evident. You can see two vertical lines on the lugs. In your first pic it looks like the B is almost visible where these have the B stamped. The B is on the right vertical line and the A on the left one. If yours does have a partial B, it's shifted leftward.



Posted By: ncin1911
Date Posted: May 12 2019 at 7:58pm
You got me off the couch looking at the bolt again tenOCEE. Geek


Posted By: tenOCEE
Date Posted: May 12 2019 at 8:05pm
It's exercise, man. Every little bit counts. LOL


Posted By: ncin1911
Date Posted: May 13 2019 at 6:59am
Originally posted by wa***te wa***te wrote:

Or maybe it was never stamped. 
Sometimes in manufacturing mistakes are made. I have a M1D rifle I bought from the CMP. The only marking on the rear of the receiver is the serial number. No US Rifle Cal 30 M1, etc. Not ground out, dimensions are normal. I also have a Garand bolt that came on a DCM M1 that doesn’t have a mark on it. This stuff just happens and I’m sure wartime quotas didn’t help any. DON’T FIX IT. It’s almost certainly as right as the rest of the Carbine.
Going through all the replies this AM and realized I missed the first one. I have no intention of messing with what I believe to be an original late production IBM. Thank you for the reply and sharing of information.



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