STD PRO Type I rear sight marking
Printed From: The Carbine Collector's Club
Category: The Club
Forum Name: Parts Markings
Forum Description: Questions and Answers
URL: http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3324
Printed Date: Apr 19 2024 at 12:37am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: STD PRO Type I rear sight marking
Posted By: carbinecanuck
Subject: STD PRO Type I rear sight marking
Date Posted: Feb 09 2018 at 2:19pm
|
I have the opportunity to pick up what looks to be a factory correct example of a Standard Products carbine, serial number 2018758. One concern I have with it, is the 'S' marking on the rear sight. I already have in my possesion a type I flip sight with a square 'S', and it looks quite different to the example I see on this STD PRO. Could I get some thoughts from members on whether or not the sight is real, or possibly a fake. Kind regards -TT  ------------- Courage is fear holding on a minute longer. - GEORGE S. PATTON |
Replies:
Posted By: Dave Tennent
Date Posted: Feb 10 2018 at 1:21pm
|
TT, here's a photo of my STD PRO rear sight. Looks the same to me. Dave  ------------- Dave |
Posted By: Dave Tennent
Date Posted: Feb 10 2018 at 1:33pm
|
I stand corrected my photo matches your original sight, not the one on the carbine. ------------- Dave |
Posted By: carbinecanuck
Date Posted: Feb 10 2018 at 5:42pm
|
Thanks for sharing Dave. Yes I would like to know if that style that is shown on your STD PRO carbine flip sight base, is the way all the square 'S' markings looked. Or if there maybe be slightly different versions. Or maybe the one on the carbine I am looking to purchase was struck lighter? Seems to be a subtle difference there, to my eyes. ------------- Courage is fear holding on a minute longer. - GEORGE S. PATTON |
Posted By: Lupus Dei
Date Posted: Feb 10 2018 at 6:02pm
|
As you can see the top picture is now unavailable. Photobucket did disservice to future research as many threads across the internet are now useless. Imgur the photos will expire. If possible please use your storage here to post pictures otherwise in the future the thread becomes useless. ------------- Louis Dey Admin www.uscarbinecal30.com/forums |
Posted By: carbinecanuck
Date Posted: Feb 10 2018 at 7:46pm
|
My apologies. Image is back up again. ------------- Courage is fear holding on a minute longer. - GEORGE S. PATTON |
Posted By: sfal7418
Date Posted: Feb 11 2018 at 6:31am
 here is mine sn....2003520...al
|
Posted By: carbinecanuck
Date Posted: Feb 11 2018 at 11:35am
|
Thanks Al. Nice example of the 'S', sans serifs, on your carbine. I see in my collectors reference that both the square 'S' and 'S' sans serifs were used on the Standard products up to serial number range 2.21 million. It would be great to see other versions of the square 'S' on other carbines, regardless of what manufacturer. ------------- Courage is fear holding on a minute longer. - GEORGE S. PATTON |
Posted By: New2brass
Date Posted: Feb 11 2018 at 2:17pm
|
Lyman Gun Sight Corporation was the one that manufactured the sight with the square S TM 9-1276 (1943) page 45 states the dovetail tapers to the left. the small end is stamped "S" one way to remember this is the word Sinister meaning left. the sights are taper fit so the S on left would be inserted from right side of receiver and moved left. The S belongs on the left. The other S marked sights usually had other markings to distinguish who made them so I would expect to see different curves S marks
------------- http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/club-assistance-saginaw-receivers_topic4716.html" rel="nofollow - Club Survey Saginaw Receivers |
Posted By: carbinecanuck
Date Posted: Feb 11 2018 at 2:50pm
|
Thanks for that insight. So then I can safely assume that all the square 'S' sight markings should be pretty well identical. With some variation due to imperfections during original application or deterioration due to use. I am currently trying to obtain pictures that allow closer inspection. But does anyone else happen to notice a slight difference in the pictures provided of the known genuine examples and the STD PRO carbine in question? Or am I seeing something that is not there? ------------- Courage is fear holding on a minute longer. - GEORGE S. PATTON |
Posted By: carbinecanuck
Date Posted: Feb 11 2018 at 2:57pm
|
Below is a view of the right side of the rear sight. Its location in the dovetail also leaves me questioning the originality of the sight to this carbine. Thoughts?  ------------- Courage is fear holding on a minute longer. - GEORGE S. PATTON |
Posted By: New2brass
Date Posted: Feb 11 2018 at 3:19pm
|
If you look at left side dovetail you see the original stake marks. Seems most rear sights are to the left of center. It might be that it moved to right or someone moved it. It could be that someone replaced it. Look closely at right side of dovetail for any marks to figure where a sight originally sat. here is a pic of an old post I had on CMP that was hosted by Photobucket. If it is still there, as Louis said, it is now useless.   think it is only a comparison of two sights taken from the thread that were offered at different angle. ------------- http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/club-assistance-saginaw-receivers_topic4716.html" rel="nofollow - Club Survey Saginaw Receivers |
Posted By: carbinecanuck
Date Posted: Feb 11 2018 at 5:35pm
I initially thought that was a stake mark to the left of the sight, but zooming in on the picture, I later noticed that it is actually the spring. I have requested photos that will show any stake marks to get a better sense of original positioning. Will share when I receive them. ------------- Courage is fear holding on a minute longer. - GEORGE S. PATTON |
Posted By: New2brass
Date Posted: Feb 11 2018 at 8:00pm
|
I was referring to the peen over of the dovetail on left side. Look up at Dave's and you will see the same peening on end of dovetail. I bet there are marks under where the sight base is sitting ------------- http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/club-assistance-saginaw-receivers_topic4716.html" rel="nofollow - Club Survey Saginaw Receivers |
Posted By: carbinecanuck
Date Posted: Feb 11 2018 at 8:16pm
|
Ok. I see what you mean. Here are a few more photos. Still do not see any obvious staking marks. Possibly a hint of them at the back of the base in the first picture? Must be under the base as you say. So original sights may have been potentially removed and replaced. Is that looking like a safe assumption?   ------------- Courage is fear holding on a minute longer. - GEORGE S. PATTON |
Posted By: New2brass
Date Posted: Feb 12 2018 at 1:43pm
Is it me or does the square S look squarer in new pictures? Funny what a photo can do ------------- http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/club-assistance-saginaw-receivers_topic4716.html" rel="nofollow - Club Survey Saginaw Receivers |
Posted By: carbinecanuck
Date Posted: Feb 12 2018 at 2:20pm
|
I completely agree. The straight on, closer perspective makes the square S look much more genuinely original. I did take note of those marks as well in that picture. After questioning the seller, he has confirmed that he moved the sight to the right himself, to correct for windage that was out when he was shooting. Would it be common for a rear flip sight staked in its original position, to be significantly out in respect to windage? ------------- Courage is fear holding on a minute longer. - GEORGE S. PATTON |
Posted By: m1a1fan
Date Posted: Feb 12 2018 at 9:22pm
| Something going on with the right rear side of the dovetail. Pics are blurry, but looks like discolorations and shiny areas. Some kind of shiny circular mark in the same area. |
Posted By: carbinecanuck
Date Posted: Feb 12 2018 at 9:49pm
|
I keep looking at the receiver, and can't decide whether it is faded original parkerizing there or if it has been refinished. The STD.PRO. and serial number looks a bit fuzzy to me ...as if it has been sandblasted. Should the markings be more crisp if it is original finish? I know the couple examples I have of receivers with original parkerizing show very crisp font and numbers. ------------- Courage is fear holding on a minute longer. - GEORGE S. PATTON |
Posted By: Dave Tennent
Date Posted: Feb 13 2018 at 8:06pm
The first things that I look at on a carbine for sale after the manufacturer of course, are the rear sight base dovetail and rear sight pin. Perfectly placed chisel staking on the dovetail is a good indication of an unmolested rear sight. Conversely, too much wear and tear on the dove tail or partially hidden craters are red flags. The rear sight pin should also appear unmolested. If the rear sight passes inspection then I move on the the front sight, looking for sight removal scratches or sight pin problems. I've learned the hard way and I've also learned to walk away. If you take a chance on that carbine and swap out the questionable rear sight with a real one, that carbine will always end up in the "restored" category. Here's a photo of what you want to see. By the way, I like them dirty too. ------------- Dave |
Posted By: carbinecanuck
Date Posted: Feb 13 2018 at 10:52pm
|
Appreciate the input Dave. There were starting to be too many red flags with regards to the carbine, but also with the seller himself. I will be continuing the search for a less questionable example. Below is my NPM. The blood pressure definitely goes up when you first spot those stake marks :)   ------------- Courage is fear holding on a minute longer. - GEORGE S. PATTON |
Posted By: Why Carbines?
Date Posted: Feb 14 2018 at 5:49am
| Long chisel marks seen on NPM dovetails are at least reasonably common if not more. No reason for blood pressure medication on this NPM sight or the staking. |
Posted By: Dave Tennent
Date Posted: Feb 14 2018 at 9:10am
Your NPM has fantastic patina and fantastic chisel staking. If I saw that carbine at a gun show, not only would my blood pressure go up, but the hair on the back of my neck would stand up. My NPM has a couple modifications done along time ago.   ------------- Dave |
Posted By: carbinecanuck
Date Posted: Feb 14 2018 at 3:46pm
|
Great character to that NPM. I will take heavy patina over a spotlessly finished carbine any day. Love the Union Switch & Signal receiver :) ------------- Courage is fear holding on a minute longer. - GEORGE S. PATTON |