Hardening
Printed From: The Carbine Collector's Club
Category: The Club
Forum Name: Commercial Carbines
Forum Description: Links to Information and recommendations
URL: http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3204
Printed Date: Apr 19 2024 at 10:39pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Hardening
Posted By: RClark9595
Subject: Hardening
Date Posted: Dec 03 2017 at 1:16pm
Has anyone considered having a commercial bolt and hammer hardened to GI spec. Ive seen a few local company's advertising hardening, is this even possible.
Something to consider, I would like to know.
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Ron
USAF 4535 CCTS
F4 Combat Crew Training
Vietnam era Vet.
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Replies:
Posted By: manteo97
Date Posted: Dec 04 2017 at 3:29pm
Not sure what you would expect as far as an improvement of performance, unless of course the commercial parts are way off spec.
Hammers have a gone thru a surface (case) hardening operation, probably carburizing. This H/T process is usually for wear resistance, and quite different from other standard Quench & Temper which most of the other parts have gone thru. Spec for hammers are minimum 15N Rockwell 89. Rough equivalent is Rc 57, which in theory makes it one of the hardest part of the carbine, but it's only superficial.
USGI bolt MIL-SPEC is for two zones of different hardness, and this is a little tricky to do, as far as getting the numbers right (bolt body Rc 38-43, rear area Rc 48-54), and getting consistency in batch lots. Seems this dual hardness requirement was dropped when commercial cast bolts started to appear.
This was probably done too try and get Rc levels of the rear of the bolt with the surface of the contact point of the hammer closer in hardness. I assume it turned out to be a non-issue. Firing pin hardness is Rc 40 -45
Of course we have seen problems with a recent commercial M1 carbine maker with the right lug of the bolt being peened by matching surfaces of the slide camming surfaces due to being below MIL-SPEC hardness for the bolt body, and shape of the lug.
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Posted By: RClark9595
Date Posted: Dec 06 2017 at 2:47am
My question was simply, there are several complaints that commercial parts aren't hardened to GI specs and are therefor deficient, such as a new Inland bolt isn't as hard as an Auto Ordnance and nether are as hard as a USGI bolt. So can a commercial bolt and hammer be hardened to GI specs or not?
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Ron
USAF 4535 CCTS
F4 Combat Crew Training
Vietnam era Vet.
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Posted By: floydthecat
Date Posted: Dec 06 2017 at 7:27am
I launched a similar search for an answer some time ago and determined the best solution was to install a GI bolt and hammer in the gun. There are simply too many variables involved to insure you'd get anything hardened to GI specs. Even if you found anyone that could, the cost would likely exceed that of simply replacing the components with USGI parts and all you'll have is their word that it was done. If you're looking for a yes/no answer....mine would be NO, for several reasons.
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