Need some help from the experts
Printed From: The Carbine Collector's Club
Category: The Club
Forum Name: Parts Markings
Forum Description: Questions and Answers
URL: http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2950
Printed Date: Apr 19 2024 at 8:58pm
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Topic: Need some help from the experts
Posted By: CCholderinMaine
Subject: Need some help from the experts
Date Posted: May 15 2017 at 2:08pm
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Hello, I'm the proud owner of NPM #1964533. I have what I'll bet is a simple question for most of the folks here and I'd be very grateful if one of you folks might share the answer with me? Did this rifle originally come equipped with a flip sight or the adjustable that's currently on it? If it was a flip, I'm interested in acquiring one. I'm not looking for anything special, actually something non-special would probably be better. I just prefer a flip sight and unless this rifle came originally with the adjustable, I plan on going back to the flip, honestly, any old one will work for me. Thanks in advance for any info anybody can provide! |
Replies:
Posted By: sling00
Date Posted: May 15 2017 at 2:35pm
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Looks like your first post so first let me say welcome! NPMs were initially issued with flip sights. As for the specifics and intricacies of swapping out sights I'll defer to experienced folks on that as well. Odds are your carbine was re-arsenaled to include the adjustable sight which in effect makes it "correct". What other details can you provide on your carbine? Barrel, bolt, trigger group, stock and any cartouches? Regards
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Posted By: New2brass
Date Posted: May 15 2017 at 3:05pm
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any old one would be north of 100 - 200 bucks. And that may not be native to NPM. Another choice may be a reproduction which can be had from 20 or so and up based on quality. Originally that carbine would also not have a flip safety, bayonet lug. Might even have had a dog leg hammer. Would have also had a high wood stock. For a basics on the M1 Carbine click on the top banner of the carbine and you will go to the main pages. Click parts and start reading for tons of useful information
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Posted By: floydthecat
Date Posted: May 15 2017 at 4:19pm
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You will also need to have the sight replaced by someone with the proper tool. You can purchase one for around $40, but you can pay as much as $100 or more for a professional model. The rear sights don't just tap-off-tap-on like your handgun sight. You may get lucky and drift one off-on, but it's not worth the risk of screwing up a sight or a dove-tail. |
Posted By: BEBIII
Date Posted: May 15 2017 at 5:25pm
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As others have stated, most of the WWII carbines came from the factory with flip sights and were up graded to adjustable either in the field or at an arsenal toward the end of WW II or post war. I have an Inland carbine from May of '44 that has the type II adjustable that I believe was original from the factory (coded "PI"). Inland was the first to implement the type II sight sometime around March/April '44. My other carbine, a Saginaw S'G' has an adjustable sight that was added later. It actually hides the "Saginaw" name on the receiver. I'm inclined to leave it alone...it's part of the history. Welcome to the forum. I think you'll like it here..
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Posted By: sling00
Date Posted: May 16 2017 at 7:20am
I second this:
If you don't have a reference book you might want to consider getting one. On the Parts main page referenced above you'll see... "The standard chosen by collectors and owners over the years was developed by author Craig Riesch for use in his book U.S. M1 Carbines, Wartime Production and it's subsequent revisions. Given the existing universal acceptance of this standard it has been chosen as the standard used on this website." I started with one of these and have been penciling in notes and a few additions based on what I've learned here. Overall I think it's easy to follow and a good starting place. You can get the latest edition for about $25. May get a good used copy even cheaper. Nothing a little Googlin', Amazonin', and eBayin' can't figure out real quick. (If you get the carbine bug real bad then you might want to invest in a set of the Carbine Club Newsletters.) Then when all else fails do what I do, just ask like you did here. Lot's of great and knowledgeable guys to help out. Regards |
New2brass wrote:Posted By: CCholderinMaine
Date Posted: May 16 2017 at 10:08am
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Thanks for the welcomes. Yes, my first post here, but I'm not a total newbie, I'm a Garand guy and I suffer from a bad case of Garanditis. Was hoping not to catch Carbineitis by just getting a quick answer rather than get completely sucked in :) I appreciate the input. I'm not installing the sight myself, I'm aware of the issues. The plan is that my wife's birthday gift to me is to send this carbine in to the CMP and have them work it over. It's a CMP auction rifle from a handful of years back...here's the info as posted; It's as far as I can tell, nothing special which is why I'm not looking for anything great in a sight. Just like the WW2 look of the flip. Thanks all for any input! Underwood barrel dated 9-43. - Muzzle gauged at 2+ - TR milled front sight - IRCo 7160060 stamped adjustable rear sight - J.M.Q. type 3 band - M in C flip safety - M2 stock - Inland no-bevel, no-hole trigger housing with Austrian Police markings - PI type 5 slide - AOB round bolt - H straight hammer - LN sear - Unmarked 2-rivet handguard |
Posted By: Impala12
Date Posted: May 16 2017 at 12:20pm
| My first GI Carbine was a National Postal Meter with a Marlin subcontract barrel. This carbine left the factory in 1943 with all of the early features. At some point it was rebuilt by August Arsenal with an M-2 pot belly stock, stamped adjustable rear sight, type 3 band and stamped/brazed trigger housing. All that remains from the original carbine is the receiver and barrel. However, since the rebuild and upgrade was done by the a US arsenal the carbine is correct for and as issued rebuild. I have had this gun for nearly 40 years and it is in the same condition as when I received it. The changes to the gun are part of it's history. If your carbine has gone through the same rebuild and upgrade it also has a history and changing the rear sight will alter that history. In addition the rear sight dovetail has punch marks from the installation of the rear sight and the marks will show when the flip sight is installed. Your best option is to enjoy the carbine as it is and look for another carbine that still has the original flip sight. |
Posted By: sling00
Date Posted: May 16 2017 at 12:24pm
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I had a slight case of Garanditis when Carbineitis hit. Kind of like getting the flu on top of a cold. All you can do is let it run its course. The one thing that stands out to me about your carbine is it has Austrian Police markings. I'm no expert on them but your carbine might be more special than you think. There is a resident expert on the forum and he put together the page on the Germany and Austria occupation carbines. (Back to the Banner above and look at the Occupation Carbines button on the left. Or use the link below) http://www.bavarianm1carbines.com/" rel="nofollow - http://www.bavarianm1carbines.com/ |
Posted By: CCholderinMaine
Date Posted: May 16 2017 at 1:12pm
I got it during the time that the CMP was doling out a lot of Bavarian carbines. I spent a little time checking on this one, it seems that perhaps the one Bavarian marked piece might have migrated over to this rifle. It probably also explains why this one was bought at a price that I could afford (still insane) rather than the prevailing rate for the Bavarian CMP auction carbines at the time.That being said, I'm all ears if anybody has anything to add! |
Posted By: New2brass
Date Posted: May 17 2017 at 9:20pm
| The CMP received parts back in bulk from Bavarian armories. When the CMP was running out of complete carbines they assembled what they could. So if this was from last few years It most likely has a mix of parts. No harm, no foul there. Still good shooters. |
Posted By: sling00
Date Posted: May 18 2017 at 5:55am
Didn't know about the bulk parts. That's good info to keep in mind. Thanks
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Posted By: New2brass
Date Posted: May 18 2017 at 10:59am
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Don't know if "bulk" is a good term. when carbines were produced the manufactures also produced "spares". This would be for wear , breakage, loss and repair When we equipped anyone with arms spares were provided. Do not forget that the M1 carbine was designed so all parts interchangeable with no hand fitting (sans headspace). Evidently the Bavarian (and Austrian?) missed that memo. This is why parts were marked with part of serial number, So all parts would stay together. Naturally repairs may have to be made. The CMP also used to sell parts. I do not know if this came in from armories or from broken down carbines. With that the CMP assembled carbines from all parts on hand. there are carbines with mixed parts possibly from Italy, US Army, Bavaria etc. on one complete carbine.
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